Go Back   nV News Forums > Software Forums > Gaming Central > MMORPGs

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-28-05, 10:27 PM   #181
Ronin
Hardware is my hobby...
 
Ronin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 186
Default Re: Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.

My location has nothing to do with this discussion.

If you're looking to grasp at straws, you're doing a good job.
__________________
FX60 @ 3.09GHz - XP120 w/Panaflow M1A :: Armor V8000 Black :: K8N Diamond Plus :: 2x1GB G.Skill PC4000 :: eVGA 8800GTX :: 1 80GB Raptor (Boot) :: 2x250GB T7K250/2x160GB WD SE Striped :: 2x160GB Raptors Striped :: 2x750GB Seagates Striped :: Pioneer A09/Pioneer BDR-101AS :: X-Fi Elite Pro :: Gigaworks S750 :: Seasonic S12-600 :: G7/MS Natural KB Elite :: 2405FPW
----------------------
AQ3 - 182496 :: 2k6 - 13723 :: 2k5 - 18857 :: 2k3 - 37045 :: 2k1 - 57357
nVIDIA Global Forum Moderator :: LV2Go Forum Moderator
Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-05, 12:02 AM   #182
ChrisRay
Registered User
 
ChrisRay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 5,101
Default Re: Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
I think it's pretty clear, actually.

You have people bitching and moaning about things they don't know a damn thing about, from graphics/gaming engines to card designs. It's typical, actually, for people to complain about what they don't know about, because if they did, they'd understand better exactly what's going on.

All you whiners that don't know anything, do the rest of us a favor that do and pipe down.

If you know something we dont. Perhaps you could feel free to share it. You have all but accused me of leading people on. I simply posted the research I did on this paticular subject. People are going to intepret those results how they see fit.

I dont see the problem with their complaints. They are rightfully frustrated with an issue that seems to be affecting them. I understand "Why" your annoyed. But I just am questioning the ends and your peculiar purpose. Most importantly. "Why you care so much".

Chris
__________________
|CPU: Intel I7 Lynnfield @ 3.0 Ghz|Mobo:Asus P7P55 WS Supercomputer |Memory:8 Gigs DDR3 1333|Video:Geforce GTX 295 Quad SLI|Monitor:Samsung Syncmaster 1680x1080 3D Vision\/Olevia 27 Inch Widescreen HDTV 1920x1080

|CPU: AMD Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.5 Ghz|Mobo:Asus M3n HT Deluxe Nforce 780A|Memory: 4 gigs DDR2 800| Video: Geforce GTX 280x2 SLI

Nzone
SLI Forum Administrator

NVIDIA User Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the members
ChrisRay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-05, 12:29 AM   #183
Ronin
Hardware is my hobby...
 
Ronin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 186
Default Re: Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.

Question all you like. It's not your concern. My stance stays the same, and so does my opinion of a good chunk of the people posting here, including yourself.
__________________
FX60 @ 3.09GHz - XP120 w/Panaflow M1A :: Armor V8000 Black :: K8N Diamond Plus :: 2x1GB G.Skill PC4000 :: eVGA 8800GTX :: 1 80GB Raptor (Boot) :: 2x250GB T7K250/2x160GB WD SE Striped :: 2x160GB Raptors Striped :: 2x750GB Seagates Striped :: Pioneer A09/Pioneer BDR-101AS :: X-Fi Elite Pro :: Gigaworks S750 :: Seasonic S12-600 :: G7/MS Natural KB Elite :: 2405FPW
----------------------
AQ3 - 182496 :: 2k6 - 13723 :: 2k5 - 18857 :: 2k3 - 37045 :: 2k1 - 57357
nVIDIA Global Forum Moderator :: LV2Go Forum Moderator
Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-05, 12:42 AM   #184
ChrisRay
Registered User
 
ChrisRay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 5,101
Default Re: Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.

Would you like to add anything to the discussion at this point? You can have an opinion. Heck. Feel free to judge me all you like. But you seem to continously insult people and put them down here. Why?


P.S. It is also our concern to make sure these forums dont become a flame fest.
__________________
|CPU: Intel I7 Lynnfield @ 3.0 Ghz|Mobo:Asus P7P55 WS Supercomputer |Memory:8 Gigs DDR3 1333|Video:Geforce GTX 295 Quad SLI|Monitor:Samsung Syncmaster 1680x1080 3D Vision\/Olevia 27 Inch Widescreen HDTV 1920x1080

|CPU: AMD Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.5 Ghz|Mobo:Asus M3n HT Deluxe Nforce 780A|Memory: 4 gigs DDR2 800| Video: Geforce GTX 280x2 SLI

Nzone
SLI Forum Administrator

NVIDIA User Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the members
ChrisRay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-05, 12:47 AM   #185
Ronin
Hardware is my hobby...
 
Ronin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 186
Default Re: Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.

I've said my peace. I doubt anyone who falls into the category I've already lined up cares, but the people that understand exactly what's being suggested realize the fix/change is not a simple one, and that the fix isn't one (changing from PS 1.1 to 2.0, for example, will not change the issues they are experiencing, nor will changing the line from CPU processing to GPU processing).

The short answer is this. Things are handled the way they are for a reason. Question it all you like, but it's up to SOE to respond. Complain all you like, but I'm going to bet you won't get an answer. Must people always have an answer all the time? Accept things as they are, and move on, or figure out how those of us that have 6800's (several, in fact, in my case) can play flawlessly, so that you can, too.

I'm done with this topic, as I simply can't handle the idiocy anymore.
__________________
FX60 @ 3.09GHz - XP120 w/Panaflow M1A :: Armor V8000 Black :: K8N Diamond Plus :: 2x1GB G.Skill PC4000 :: eVGA 8800GTX :: 1 80GB Raptor (Boot) :: 2x250GB T7K250/2x160GB WD SE Striped :: 2x160GB Raptors Striped :: 2x750GB Seagates Striped :: Pioneer A09/Pioneer BDR-101AS :: X-Fi Elite Pro :: Gigaworks S750 :: Seasonic S12-600 :: G7/MS Natural KB Elite :: 2405FPW
----------------------
AQ3 - 182496 :: 2k6 - 13723 :: 2k5 - 18857 :: 2k3 - 37045 :: 2k1 - 57357
nVIDIA Global Forum Moderator :: LV2Go Forum Moderator
Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-05, 12:59 AM   #186
ChrisRay
Registered User
 
ChrisRay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 5,101
Default Re: Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.

Alright, So lets clarify your position on this. Just so I understand it properly. I would like you to forgive me and us for being "Mis informed".

#1. You dont believe that there is any performance to be gained from transfering some geometry load to the GPU. Personally I dont agree with you here. I understand why Sony chose not too. But the GPU has alot of geometry processing power being wasted. Assuming the polygons were skinned on the GPU, It would free up more power to the CPU. It's not really unreasonable to assume this.

#2. You dont believe that implementing SM 2.0 was a magical performance fix for the slow performance in EQ 2. I agree. But that doesnt neccasarily mean there arent certain areas in the game that could benefit from a more unified lighting model. If you have any reason to believe otherwise. I'd like for you to share it. Obviously the entire game wouldnt need to be filled with SM 2.0 type shaders. There are many shaders in HL2, Far Cry ect which dont need high precision longer instructons.

But surely there are situations and circumstances where some lighting shaders can be processed in a single pass. The real question is. What shaders would benefit from this? Obviously not all of them.

#3. I dont see a reason for your hostility here. I personally have never suggested switching to SM 2.0 for every shader was the solution. Actually its obsurd. I do believe geometry processing could be better balanced between GPU and CPU currently. I also b believe there are circumstances where single passing some shaders might be ideal to current rendering method. I understand that such recoding will take a great deal of time and I also understand that it would require extensive testing and restesting of every changed area.

#4. As a matter of fact, I dont suffer from the stutter. But that does not mean it doesnt exist for several users. Because we dont have a stuttering issue does mean that others dont. Secondly its obvious that this discussion has gone off topic since there are well over 180 posts/replies. As such I thought it was within merit to discuss the EQ 2 engine. The only thing I have experienced with EQ 2 is poor performance. ((But within reasonable expectation as well))
__________________
|CPU: Intel I7 Lynnfield @ 3.0 Ghz|Mobo:Asus P7P55 WS Supercomputer |Memory:8 Gigs DDR3 1333|Video:Geforce GTX 295 Quad SLI|Monitor:Samsung Syncmaster 1680x1080 3D Vision\/Olevia 27 Inch Widescreen HDTV 1920x1080

|CPU: AMD Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.5 Ghz|Mobo:Asus M3n HT Deluxe Nforce 780A|Memory: 4 gigs DDR2 800| Video: Geforce GTX 280x2 SLI

Nzone
SLI Forum Administrator

NVIDIA User Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the members

Last edited by ChrisRay; 01-29-05 at 01:18 AM.
ChrisRay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-05, 01:28 AM   #187
bmg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 233
Default Re: Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
My location has nothing to do with this discussion.

If you're looking to grasp at straws, you're doing a good job.
You didn't answer the question. Do you work for SOE? You said you work in the game development business and your location is San Diego. Seems like an obvious question, especially considering some of your comments.

BTW, I just finished a long EQ2 session with some friends. It's become the only game I play (and I play a lot) and yes, it runs great on my system.
__________________
I7 950 processor/Ultra 120 Extreme cooling/Asus P6T Deluxe V2 motherboard/6Gb corsair 1600C7 ram
Evga 280 FTW video/Mitsubishi 2070SB 22" monitor/SB XFi-Titanium sound
Enermax Galaxy DXX 1000w Power Supply/Coolermaster RC-832 case
bmg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-05, 01:29 AM   #188
ChrisRay
Registered User
 
ChrisRay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 5,101
Default Re: Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.

Guys where he works isnt important. Please drop that discussion.
__________________
|CPU: Intel I7 Lynnfield @ 3.0 Ghz|Mobo:Asus P7P55 WS Supercomputer |Memory:8 Gigs DDR3 1333|Video:Geforce GTX 295 Quad SLI|Monitor:Samsung Syncmaster 1680x1080 3D Vision\/Olevia 27 Inch Widescreen HDTV 1920x1080

|CPU: AMD Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.5 Ghz|Mobo:Asus M3n HT Deluxe Nforce 780A|Memory: 4 gigs DDR2 800| Video: Geforce GTX 280x2 SLI

Nzone
SLI Forum Administrator

NVIDIA User Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the members
ChrisRay is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 01-29-05, 01:32 AM   #189
bmg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 233
Default Re: Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRay
Guys where he works isnt important. Please drop that discussion.
Ok, but it seems like he's dropped plenty of hints, whether they were intended or not.
__________________
I7 950 processor/Ultra 120 Extreme cooling/Asus P6T Deluxe V2 motherboard/6Gb corsair 1600C7 ram
Evga 280 FTW video/Mitsubishi 2070SB 22" monitor/SB XFi-Titanium sound
Enermax Galaxy DXX 1000w Power Supply/Coolermaster RC-832 case
bmg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-05, 01:52 AM   #190
Ronin
Hardware is my hobby...
 
Ronin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 186
Default Re: Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.

See what you wish. San Diego is a big place, and there are several Game dev companies here. More directly, I don't live in San Diego anymore, and haven't for over a year, although I am still in California.
__________________
FX60 @ 3.09GHz - XP120 w/Panaflow M1A :: Armor V8000 Black :: K8N Diamond Plus :: 2x1GB G.Skill PC4000 :: eVGA 8800GTX :: 1 80GB Raptor (Boot) :: 2x250GB T7K250/2x160GB WD SE Striped :: 2x160GB Raptors Striped :: 2x750GB Seagates Striped :: Pioneer A09/Pioneer BDR-101AS :: X-Fi Elite Pro :: Gigaworks S750 :: Seasonic S12-600 :: G7/MS Natural KB Elite :: 2405FPW
----------------------
AQ3 - 182496 :: 2k6 - 13723 :: 2k5 - 18857 :: 2k3 - 37045 :: 2k1 - 57357
nVIDIA Global Forum Moderator :: LV2Go Forum Moderator
Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-05, 08:22 AM   #191
killahsin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,496
Default Re: Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.

There are quite a few of us here who do understand game design. Although I do agree with basis of what ronin is saying about those whom don't know any better. I do not agree with the assumption that going from 1.1-3 would not offer much improved performance. In fact in some instances it would improve performance greatly. If you wish we can get into the technical sides as to how. But that would be rather boring, long winded, and I would sound like a carmack fanboy. The point is simply this in laymen terms. Visually eq2 is impressive. So much so its almost came as a shock to many that its not 2 or 3. The issue people in the know are having is this: 1-2 = less more ; 3 = more less. Thus the cpu is being over used when you can offload some of this by going to sm3, with longer single algs. As I havent slept yet I'm probably not making much sense here. I'm not sure it was Chris's intention to say it was easy, or anyone elses for that matter. Least not any intelligent persons. But whats the point of hlsl if its not being fully optimized in a seriously high level shader intensive game? One could assume based off understanding basic math, that certain slowdowns could be nullified, like during combat and the particle engine is going wild.

Now I can understand from a coders perspective. I get yelled at all the time for finding bugs in code. But you must also understand from a gamers perspective. As for the stuttering, thats all backend texture issues, in my opinion. The more memory you have the less intensive the stutter is, the longer it takes to develop. And yes this is from serious testing. But as in the past were at a stage where the infamous stutter will be showing its face more frequently in games. So while some people are blaming said on code paths, i am quite sure it has nothing to do with the paths. More so on the management of memory.


Sorry for my disjointed thoughts been up all night.
killahsin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-05, 09:14 AM   #192
Anker Steadfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 8
Default Re: Everquest 2. I think I may have a partial solution to stuttering.

*unlurks*

Having followed this thread for a while, I must admit I'm quite puzzled by some of the info uncovered.
First of all, thanks ChrisRay, your insight and concrete data makes for a good discussion.

Secondly, while I can understand why SOE puts so much of their graphics load on the CPU in order to support old Hardware, I'm also rather disgruntled about it. It makes my upgrades almost worthless, which is silly. The average FPS difference in EQ II between my GeForce 3 Ti 200 (64 MB) and my GeForce XF 6800 GT (256 MB) on High Performanced (not even Balanced) is about 4 FPS in 1024 x 768 resolution ... that's just sad. It gets a bit more in favor of the 6800 in higher resolutions especially in outdoors zones, but it's still sad.

What CPU I have ? Why, a 2.53 Ghz Pentium 4 ... it's not exactly an old CPU.

Anyways, I'm digress ... back to the topic.
The point is, I can understand it was a choice they must have made during development, and thus, while I'm disapointed, I'm not really angry at them.

Nvidia now ... they slapped their logo on the game and said "The way it's meant to be played" ... that makes me angry. A graphics card producer hailing a game that almost makes no use of their card as something they support .. BAH. All I can say is that I bet there was money involved ... lots.

They *should* have tested the game SOE made.
They *should* have noticed that the game scales incredibly bad on bigger graphics cards.
They *should not* have put their logo on it.

And that's the crux of it - A lot of angry people feels they have been cheated.
And who's to say they weren't ?
They have a good argument after all.

And as killahsin mentioned, what's the point of new technology if it isn't used ?
Anker Steadfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NVIDIA Responds to Reports of Kepler V-Sync Stuttering Issue Rieper NVIDIA GeForce 600 Series 13 03-03-13 10:56 PM
EverQuest II Adding Vaguely Terrifying Voice/Facial Tech News Archived News Items 0 06-02-12 09:40 AM
Evidon and Adobe Tag Manager Privacy Solution Launches! News Archived News Items 0 05-15-12 05:30 AM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2014, nV News.