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Old 08-05-02, 12:56 PM   #1
CraigGen
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Default A big moan about today's market

Right, I'm going to have a massive moan.

How many of you out there can say you have been gaming for years ?
I mean, You've seen everything, from the early 2600 consoles, to the early 80's computers,
to the big 80's market crash, to the 16bit pick up era ?
Now how many of you loved those years ? I mean, Really got excited by every game announcement ?
Every hardware announcement, Computer or Console ?

Now how many of you are bored stiff of today's bland, stale, seen it all before, market ?
Well I'm bored of it all.
I have been gaming for 27 years and I have never been so bored today as I have ever been.
The only thing I get even remotely excited about are the PC hardware releases, and even then
it's all more expense.

Look at a lot of today's games and future releases and it's all the same.
Take Unreal Tournament 2003, or Doom3, or Unreal 2, or Duke Nukem Forever (if ever), Deus Ex 2,
Halo, They are all the bloody same. Just dressed in different clothing.
Ok, they all will have amazing graphics, but take that away from them and what are you left with ?
It's like taking a Ford Escort mark 1, and doing a design change, and then saying
"OMG ! Would you look at those new curves, and that new paint job, it's a whole new car", yet it ain't doing anything the first one couldn't do. It still drives down the same roads, has a steering wheel and pedals. It doesn't now fly, or timetravel, or take you to the moon, does it ?

Ok, that was a crap analogy that went a bit extreme, but can you see my point ?
None of the new games are doing anything radically different from the last.
Developers have gotten way too complacent, big headed, Lazy, and boring lately.
How about instead of telling *us* what to do all the time, how about we get to tell our own stories ?
I don't want some geeking nerdy programmer giving me his own dull, and rather cliched Scifi plot driven game. Would you go and see a film directed and starring a load of developers and programmers ?
So why should these lot suddenly think they are directors and actors ?

The same can be said about the console market as well. Infact, it's in worse state then it's ever been.
I have never been so disappointed by a lineup as I am today.
Hardly any of the 3 consoles offer anything new or exciting, with the Xbox looking by far the worst. The fact that MS keep blabbing about the launch titles says it all really.
The PS2 is the best of all 3, but only just. ICO is one game that justifies owning it, and where it seems the developer took a risk for a change.
Risks do pull off, but do they sell ? And is this the fault of today's market ?
If Tombraider 10 sells by the bucketload, and Original GameX sells poorly, what does that tell you about the market ? It's full of casual gamers ? Or full of greedy,lazy developers out for a quick cash in ?

So, where does that leave people like myself ?

Well, I have been getting more and more into emulators. I have been using them since the Amiga days when it had Magic64, and a few Spectrum emulators.
Today, they have all come a long way. They offer instant loading, snapshot saving, better displays, graphical enhancements like 2xSai and hardware stretching. They often have great sound, and can make use of modern hardware like PSOne dual shock pads and steering wheels, etc..
I know emulators have got popular just by reading the many forums. And to see the popularity of old machines still today must say a lot for the strength of yesterday's games.
If I can stil enjoy many Spectrum games, or C64 games, or Arcade, or Console games then surely they must of been special ?

To be honest, the last time I was really excited was when I purchased an imported NEC PCEngine Turbo Grafix (I think they spelt it like that) at a huge All Formats Computer fair in London.
Do we get any of these shows again ? Do we heck.
The Americans are the lucky ones, they get massive fairs dedicated to Retrogaming. Something I would die for to visit.

If you are still here and haven't fallen asleep yet, What are your thoughts ?
And I just an old git moaning ? Or do I have a point ?

Lastly, I hope we can have a friendly, Adult debate that doesn't result in any flaming for a change.
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Old 08-05-02, 01:14 PM   #2
druga runda
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The gaming is surely bland, but that is consequence - as with everyday life - game design costs a lot, and investors/publishers are looking for hits, which gives you a hollywood/ music business style development where the public gets what it wants .

But still even though the games seem bland - the rest of the entertainment industy is even worse. Just an occasional upset (a small change) here and there.

But that is all the reasoning c***. Apart from the reasons, we can only try and find something for ourselves in all that.

For me Morrowind was a bit of fresh wind after quite a long time. Perhaps after Deus Ex - the most interesting I tried and I am playing now. So obvioiusly I have high hopes for Deus Ex2, and I believe that some storytelling will come into all that 3D shooting action. And doom III will be at least visually interesting and maybe they nail some good SF story too (as they hired a storywriter as well)... sooo in the meantime - try GTA3.

I am obviously not is so desparate state as you (meaning no hope for getting entertainmet out of the games being made today) but I was almost there -i felt that "wah, this is no fun I have done all this before feeling" - but Morrowind saved me for now.

I think storytelling is needed on PC platform and that will give us variety for a while. What innovations would you like to see?
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Old 08-05-02, 01:19 PM   #3
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Money.

It all boils down to money. No new revolutionary ideas, because that is taking a chance. People dont want to spend millions in development for something that could very well be a flop. So, they stay to the tried and true method of games.

There has been slow progression in videogames, and features and fun are coming along slowly but surely. Eye candy is being developed faster than innovation in gameplay though.

I myself like emulators as well, but I really love nice graphics.. so emulators can only keep my attention for so long.

Personally, I extremely enjoy UT even to this day, and am very excited to play UT2k3. It might be the same boring repetitive thing to you, but when you are involved in the communities within these games, and competing within the community, it is a lot more than just run and gun.

I completely agree with the writing aspect. I would love to see a really big budgeted game with an excellent story and non linear gameplay, excellent graphics and lots of innovation. Eventually, things like that will happen.

We are definetely moving away from watching television into true interactive entertainment. I havent watched Television in years myself.. but I digress...

Im not into consoles, because like I said, I enjoy being part of communities online.
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Old 08-05-02, 02:29 PM   #4
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The innovations I would like to see are difficult to explain.
So I'll work offline and come up with some ideas I have been thinking about.

I have GTA3, and I'll admit, it is a great game. Even more so if you have just came from GTa2. Talk about a smack in the face you'll get from the difference.
An almost living, breathing world. But it ain't without it's faults.
Watching as a car approaches, turn your head, then look back and it's been replaced by a truck, or gone completely. The same happens with the people. Also, you can't hide from the cops, and it takes away the realism. Wouldn't it be better if you hid down a dark alleyway and watch as they all drove past, lights and sirens blazing ? Surely that would make a more believeable world ?

Deus Ex, WAS different from the norm. But you still have a start and a finish, a goal if you will.
How about a Deus Ex where you live in a fully breathing city ? Not just take part in a restricted city.
Imagine an FPS game in a Bladerunner city where you had your own apartment, your own job, your own identity. You could spend all day looking out over the city and watch as time went by in your own time, and not have to follow a path or be somewhere at the programmers time. Imagine if you could just go and do as you please ? You could break the law and become a fugitive, and actually become a wanted man. Not slapped on the wrist, have all weapons removed, and taken back to a point in the game.
Imagine if you could venture out into that city and either decide to do your job, or just do a bit of sight seeing.
Perhaps you could hack into a bank, or even rob the bank. Why must we have to just do one thing ? A game would say "Next objective is to hack the bank", Why not be able to say "Sod that, I'm going to blow it up ?"

Don't get me too wrong. I too like UT, Quake3, etc.. But I'm starting to get a bit fed up with the same feeling I get when I play these games.
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Old 08-05-02, 02:48 PM   #5
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Making great games not only takes money, but also the efforts of many, and several years to create and develop. Sure, it would be awesome, we all wish for something extravagant like what you're thinking of, but let's be a little realistic. Meanwhile, in lieu of playing games you consider mediocre, there's more to life out there worth your time.
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Old 08-05-02, 03:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by fishlung
Making great games not only takes money, but also the efforts of many, and several years to create and develop. Sure, it would be awesome, we all wish for something extravagant like what you're thinking of, but let's be a little realistic. Meanwhile, in lieu of playing games you consider mediocre, there's more to life out there worth your time.
My thoughts exactly. Free-form is nice, it really is. But when you consider the time and expense it would take to make something like that, there's no way it will happen any time soon. Video games, like anything else is a business where the bottom line is not what you want, it's what games they can get to market as soon as possible that can make the most money.

I personally applaud Rockstar for making GTA3 as free form as they did. There are so many things you can do, from main missions, to vigilante, to simply reaking havoc in Liberty City that make the game an absolute blast to play as well as something that is totally different from what's out there now.

Don't forget you have games like Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights that offer degrees of freedom and flexibility unlike other games of their genres.

I had been disappointed by the quality of PC gaming, but GTA3 changed my impressions in a big way. I'm so glad they decided to bring it out for the PC.

By the way, I've been a gamer since the Commodore 64 was the top of the line so I think I know my way around PC gaming.
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Old 08-05-02, 04:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigGen
The innovations I would like to see are difficult to explain.
So I'll work offline and come up with some ideas I have been thinking about.

I have GTA3, and I'll admit, it is a great game. Even more so if you have just came from GTa2. Talk about a smack in the face you'll get from the difference.
An almost living, breathing world. But it ain't without it's faults.
Watching as a car approaches, turn your head, then look back and it's been replaced by a truck, or gone completely. The same happens with the people. Also, you can't hide from the cops, and it takes away the realism. Wouldn't it be better if you hid down a dark alleyway and watch as they all drove past, lights and sirens blazing ? Surely that would make a more believeable world ?

Deus Ex, WAS different from the norm. But you still have a start and a finish, a goal if you will.
How about a Deus Ex where you live in a fully breathing city ? Not just take part in a restricted city.
Imagine an FPS game in a Bladerunner city where you had your own apartment, your own job, your own identity. You could spend all day looking out over the city and watch as time went by in your own time, and not have to follow a path or be somewhere at the programmers time. Imagine if you could just go and do as you please ? You could break the law and become a fugitive, and actually become a wanted man. Not slapped on the wrist, have all weapons removed, and taken back to a point in the game.
Imagine if you could venture out into that city and either decide to do your job, or just do a bit of sight seeing.
Perhaps you could hack into a bank, or even rob the bank. Why must we have to just do one thing ? A game would say "Next objective is to hack the bank", Why not be able to say "Sod that, I'm going to blow it up ?"

Don't get me too wrong. I too like UT, Quake3, etc.. But I'm starting to get a bit fed up with the same feeling I get when I play these games.
Sure, what is on my mind is Republic the Revolution... that might be the closest shot to an open ended game when it gets out.

But by the way Morrowind is really open, you have 3000 NPC's and the main story, but you have many factions and even though there is the end for the main story you don't have to follow it at all if you don't want.

I am following it trough slowly at the moment, and I don't fell like becoming a robber, but I can if I want... that game is great, check it out. Of course it is not as action intensive as a FPS, but there is pleny going on and a decent main story if you feel like it. One of the most open ended game so far.

Interesting to check out at least. - perfect - certainly not, but a good refreshment.
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Old 08-05-02, 04:37 PM   #8
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I have seen Morrowmind going second hand & cheap in our local Games Exchange, So I may try it out.
I have a Ti4600, 512Mb, and an Athlon 1.9, so it should run quite nice.
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Old 08-05-02, 04:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigGen
I have seen Morrowmind going second hand & cheap in our local Games Exchange, So I may try it out.
I have a Ti4600, 512Mb, and an Athlon 1.9, so it should run quite nice.
I hope so, it is similar to Mike's setup when he tested Morrowind, I have to run at 1/3 of view in the cities to get to above 25 FPS rate, but I don't mind.
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Old 08-05-02, 06:06 PM   #10
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I was bored silly by Morrowind after a bit.

As to Deus Ex 2 -
http://www.deusex2.com/

The fact sheet is promising. The interviews say it'll be a LOT more open ended than Deus Ex. If they succeed...hats off.
I loved that game
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Old 08-05-02, 06:32 PM   #11
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Deus Ex2 could be great, and it certainly sounds good on paper.

I like the huge vocabulary the NPC's have, and although much of it sounds scripted, it won't be simple stuff like we have now.

The shadowing looks promising, lets hope it's not just a novelty and more of an actual usuable effect.
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Old 08-05-02, 06:40 PM   #12
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By itself it all might as well be novelty, cause no matter what you do with it it will still be a dumb game. As a great package, just as you saw in Deus Ex...it won't be a novelty.
I'm not sure how it'll turn out either, I just expect it'll be another geat game
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