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Old 02-12-05, 07:01 PM   #25
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Default Re: impressive hl2 engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangSVT
Having games with really high requirements will shut out over 50% of the gaming market probably. This would lead to less games being made on the PC because less people will buy it. Some of you people are just ridiculous. You have to think about consequences.

And that Edge guy. WTF? The lightning engine in HL2 is attrocious? Only little improved over HL1? Are you smoking or something? I suggest you go back and play HL1 and then come back. Just plain ridiculous. Anyone else agree?
agree
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Old 02-12-05, 07:03 PM   #26
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Default Re: impressive hl2 engine

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Originally Posted by Vagrant Zero
Crappy ass textures? No more then a few enemies on screen at once. Low Poly characters?

Um gee...ya.
read the whole thread, i meant supporting other hardware doesn't effect using dx9 on the newer hardware
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Old 02-12-05, 07:11 PM   #27
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Default Re: impressive hl2 engine

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Originally Posted by dpagan
read the whole thread, i meant supporting other hardware doesn't effect using dx9 on the newer hardware
You used D3 as an example and I tore it down. Deal with it instead of holding up asanine comment about shaders for a defense.
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Old 02-12-05, 07:11 PM   #28
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Default Re: impressive hl2 engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangSVT
Having games with really high requirements will shut out over 50% of the gaming market probably. This would lead to less games being made on the PC because less people will buy it. Some of you people are just ridiculous. You have to think about consequences.

And that Edge guy. WTF? The lightning engine in HL2 is attrocious? Only little improved over HL1? Are you smoking or something? I suggest you go back and play HL1 and then come back. Just plain ridiculous. Anyone else agree?
Disagree. Better than HL1 maybe....good? Far from it.
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Old 02-12-05, 07:20 PM   #29
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Default Re: impressive hl2 engine

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Originally Posted by nutcrackr
I can't believe you guys are suggesting devs cut out older hardware completely! Do you want PC gaming to go further into a hole? Consoles have it sweet because the average joe bloe doesn't have to worry about graphics cards and cpus he just knows that his system works with this game.

Shunning out geforce mx users like DX:IW and Thief 3 did is beyond stupid, go play those games again - it doesn't even push the limits of high end cards! Developers need to work at making very backwards compatible games that work with graphics settings down while giving the latest and greatest to new computer owners. I have to say source is a step toward this. While I see that it will cost more and take longer to develop this support for older cards I think will pay off as people will no longer be leaving PCs because their computer doesn't run squat anymore and moving to xbox2 or ps3.
Yeah, but you have to draw a line and finally cut off the older stuff. There comes a point in time where you can't support everything anymore, and if people are gamers, they shouldn't be using technology 4 generations old.
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Old 02-12-05, 07:39 PM   #30
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Default Re: impressive hl2 engine

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Originally Posted by Vagrant Zero
You used D3 as an example and I tore it down. Deal with it instead of holding up asanine comment about shaders for a defense.
first of all it's ASININE like your comment above, and the same thing applies to the doom3 engine, just because they support gf3 doesn't make someone playing with a 6 series card it's going to look like there playing on a gf3
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Old 02-12-05, 07:45 PM   #31
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Default Re: impressive hl2 engine

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Originally Posted by superklye
Yeah, but you have to draw a line and finally cut off the older stuff. There comes a point in time where you can't support everything anymore, and if people are gamers, they shouldn't be using technology 4 generations old.
if you look at valves system survey, you'll see that the high majority of "gamers" as you say are playing with older hardware and if it wasn't for them hl1, cs and hl2 wouldn't be as succesful as they are now, valve get's the picture why is it so hard for the rest of you to get it, hell my system is basic but compared to the ones on that survey i have a super computer.
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Old 02-12-05, 07:56 PM   #32
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Default Re: impressive hl2 engine

So then why not support Voodoo 2s then? Hell, support 128KB ISA video cards, too.

You have to draw a line and say, look, if you want to play, you'll need at least this. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand. Support a generation or two behind so that consumers don't have to pay $500 for a graphics card to play, but still...it's ridiculous that companies still support GeFORCE 2 cards. It's 4 generations old, it's time to upgrade.
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Old 02-12-05, 08:00 PM   #33
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Default Re: impressive hl2 engine

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Originally Posted by jonk
Doom3 wasn't meant to run great with every card on the market. The Doom3 engine was meant to be the future and push technology foward.
QFT. Doom 3 wasn't even mean't to be fun, it's just a 10 hour tech-demo of what possibilities can come from the engine....
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Old 02-12-05, 08:19 PM   #34
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Default Re: impressive hl2 engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangSVT
Having games with really high requirements will shut out over 50% of the gaming market probably. This would lead to less games being made on the PC because less people will buy it. Some of you people are just ridiculous. You have to think about consequences.
And if PC developers should be forced to only design their games around the lowest hardware availible, then console games would become more advanced than PC games as PC developers would be forced to design their games for such ancient hardware. Think about it: if a developer wants to make a game today and has the option to either design their game around the Xbox's GF3 with full pixel shader support, OR design the game to work on the lowest common denominator for PC users (which would probably be the Intel Extreme chipset, which is based on 6-year-old technology), which do you think they'd choose? Which would end up being better? Which would need less time and money put into it's development? They have to draw the line somewhere, we can't expect every new game to work with every PC on the market. If we do, then we better not expect much from them since they'll all have to be based around extremely limited hardware.

Quote:
And that Edge guy. WTF? The lightning engine in HL2 is attrocious? Only little improved over HL1? Are you smoking or something? I suggest you go back and play HL1 and then come back. Just plain ridiculous. Anyone else agree?
I suggest you do the same. The lighting engine in HL2 IS extremely archaic, and I listed the reasons why. EVERY other major FPS released in 2004 supported at the very least dynamic shadowing, but it's nowhere to be found in HL2. Even Halo 2 used dynamic shadows. Now why is it that a console game based on nearly 3 and a half year old hardware supports an effect that HL2, a game you're using as a staple for PC graphics, doesn't?

I said that the lighting was improved over HL1, it allows for things such as spotlight projections and variable light intensity, but it's still EXTREMELY limited and the basic technology is just as problematic. Dynamic lights are extremely inconsistant when cast: try playing Nova Prospekt and watching the lighting the turrets give off. When they shoot, there's a bright flash that causes any object around it to light up like a christmas tree, yet the geometry is totally unaffected. The lighting is nowhere near as unified as it is in games like Farcry, Doom 3, hell even the original Halo. PC games SHOULD be far, far, far more advanced than anything you can find for consoles due to their much more advanced capabilities, yet this isn't the case...why do you think that is?

And BTW, noone has yet come up with a counter-point to my statement about removing things for low-end hardware that would affect gameplay elements. Can anyone honestly make a suggestion on how Thief 3 could've been done on hardware that doesn't support dynamic shadows? At best, they might've been able to use a different system for the shadows that allow them to work on non-PS hardware, but the result would've added time and money onto the development, and it would've made the game run so poorly that noone using that hardware would've been able to play it properly.
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Old 02-12-05, 08:30 PM   #35
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Default Re: impressive hl2 engine

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Originally Posted by dpagan
all i have to say is source engine and doom 3 engine both support older hardware and these's are the mac daddy engines as it stands today, are they holding back?
Absolutely. Imagine if they had spent the extra time required for backwards compatibility on optimizing/enhancing for the latest tech.

We are still barely tapping the 6800 shaderwise, and it's one mighty-ass shading powerhouse. There is a lot more that could've been done with the hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superklye
So then why not support Voodoo 2s then? Hell, support 128KB ISA video cards, too.

You have to draw a line and say, look, if you want to play, you'll need at least this.
True, and there is nothing wrong with that. At least then, enthusiasts can enjoy the hobby to it's fullest, and it's not like gamers unwilling to upgrade can't play the myriad of older games.

No different than saying "You wanna race Pro, you're gonna need a beefier motor. Sorry, but we need to keep the sport exciting."
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Old 02-12-05, 08:46 PM   #36
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Default Re: impressive hl2 engine

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Originally Posted by nutcrackr
I can't believe you guys are suggesting devs cut out older hardware completely!
No. I suggest that the teams building next-gen games set aside a programmer or two to work on a 2-D side-scroller version with themes from their main work. Then, everyone can still play
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