Go Back   nV News Forums > Software Forums > Gaming Central

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-03-05, 09:43 AM   #1
Intel17
Is not an Intel fanboi
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Burlington, VT
Posts: 1,368
Default CryEngine shadowing investigation...

Well, for a while now it seems, people have been under this impression that the CryEngine can do real-time lighting and shadowing just as well as Doom 3, because somebody thought that they just didn't utilize the engine correctly for that type of thing. Well, here's my investigation in the CryEngine on shadow maps and shadow volumes.

Shadow Volumes:

This is the interesting one! People (on this board) have been advocating that if you just set everything to cast stencil shadows in the CryEngine, then you can simulate Doom 3 quite accurately, or even better. After investigating this, the results are quite different from what I had expected, since I had read people's thoughts on this. Stencil shadows can be used a few ways in the CryEngine;

1.) Stencil Volumes can only be used indoors. When I tried to set shadow volumes as a flag outdoors on objects, shadows would disappear.

2.) Only dynamic objects can cast stencil volumes indoors. That's right. Only dynamic objects can cast stencil volumes. This means characters can cast them, dynamic switches/buttons and physics objects can cast them. I attempted to set stencil volumes as a flag on static objects, and static parts of the world, and there was simply just the pre-computed shadow there.

3.) They only get one. Regardless of the number of light sources, Stencil Volumes will only be cast from these dynamic objects once, based on the "strongest" or "most important" light source. I experimented adding a few dynamic, real-time lights into the scene and the characters and objects with shadow-volumes set as a flag would only cast one shadow.

4.) They kill performance. On small indoor areas, applying stencil volumes to a few objects (not even all of them in a scene) would cause my machine to notice quite a drop in framerate, let alone all stencil-capable objects in a scene.


Shadow Buffers

1.) Shadow-Buffers only work outdoors. I tried to set some dynamic indoor objects to cast shadow-buffers, and the shadow would simply disappear.

2.) Only dynamic world objects or characters can cast a shadow-buffer. Any static objects outdoors I attempted to set to cast shadow buffers would simply just retain their pre-computed shadow. This means only switches, buttons, characters etc... get a shadow-buffer.

3.) They only get one. That's right. Regardless of the light sources they only get one (although outdoors only need one, I tested out multiple light sources outdoors).

4.) Performance is good. I have not seen any significant framerate drop with the shadow maps.

5.) Horrible aliasing. Hard edges on the stencil shadows? Heh, you can still see the artifacts in the shadows, even though they seem sampled. It seems the shadow maps were a quick and dirty implimentation.

Dynamic Lights

1.) Kill performance horribly! I mean, indoors with only a few, the real-time ones would kill performance, I can't imagine a fully realtime lighting scene indoors!

2.) The shading seems primitive, and doesn't offer a qualitative improvement over pre-computed lights.

Pre-computed lights

1.) Cost-Effective in terms of performance

2.) Looks pretty good

3.) Can be a primary lightsource for shadow casting

4.) Primary lighting method in the CryEngine.


Conclusion

Well there you have it. The myth isn't true. CryEngine's stencil volumes are buggy and slow, and aren't nearly as good as Doom 3's or Riddicks, and they are about the level of Quake 3 Arena's stencil shadows.

Form your own decisions from this, I'm not going to force which engine is better down anyone's throats, I just want to educate people before they say CryEngine's shadowing is as robust and flexible as Dooms.


Intel17
Intel17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-05, 09:57 AM   #2
dpagan
Registered User
 
dpagan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 231
Default Re: CryEngine shadowing investigation...

nice info, whom ever had any doubts about that! is just a fanboy, doom3 is a better polished engine, farcry while pretty could have been better, but not bad for there first try, riddick while also a nice looking engine also seems to be buggy and starbreeze has not release a patch for this game either which is a pitty,they included 2.0++ (soft shadows) and in this mode is unplayable (at least for me) and aa even at low res take a huge hit but over all the game is nice
__________________

Spec's:
Abit NF8
Amd Athlon64 2800@2.25Ghz
1GB GeIL Ultra Platinum PC4000@ 7-4-4-2.5
160GB WD Caviar HD 7200RPM 8MB Cache
Chaintech 6600GT@ 550/1000
SB Audigy2


http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=36426
dpagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-05, 10:04 AM   #3
|MaguS|
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: CryEngine shadowing investigation...

Where did you get your information is my question? Are you basing the "performance killer" on your experiance? I played the game on max settings and it never "killed" my performance...
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-05, 10:07 AM   #4
Vagrant Zero
I'm a Back Door Man
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,750
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant Zero
Default Re: CryEngine shadowing investigation...

That's because the GAME isn't doing ANY of those things. That's what the point of the test was EB, to see if the engine could handle it. Obviously it couldn't.
__________________
o <---- Dev
|\_o <---- Paladin
// \
Vagrant Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-05, 10:10 AM   #5
Intel17
Is not an Intel fanboi
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Burlington, VT
Posts: 1,368
Default Re: CryEngine shadowing investigation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by egbtmagus
Where did you get your information is my question? Are you basing the "performance killer" on your experiance? I played the game on max settings and it never "killed" my performance...
I tested all of this myself. All using the CryEngine sandbox editor which I learned specifically so I could do this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Zero
That's because the GAME isn't doing ANY of those things. That's what the point of the test was EB, to see if the engine could handle it. Obviously it couldn't.
Exactly!
Intel17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-05, 10:26 AM   #6
Intel17
Is not an Intel fanboi
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Burlington, VT
Posts: 1,368
Default Re: CryEngine shadowing investigation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeero1978
enjoyment:

farcry > riddick > doom3
I agree with you. However this is technical discussion about engines and what i've found out about the CryEngine. Not, about the games themselves.
Intel17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-05, 10:28 AM   #7
Ninjaman09
Takin 'er easy
 
Ninjaman09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Jowjah
Posts: 6,687
Default Re: CryEngine shadowing investigation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intel17
I agree with you. However this is technical discussion about engines and what i've found out about the CryEngine. Not, about the games themselves.
And what a discussion. That's some pretty interesting information there, Intel17. I think it's awesome that you're so enthusiastic about it, I can tell you've really learned a ton since last year. Keep it up!
__________________
Core i7 920 @ 3.2 | ASUS P6T Deluxe V2
6GB Mushkin DDR3-1600 RAM
eVGA GTX 570 SC | Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX
Dell U2410
Ninjaman09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-05, 10:38 AM   #8
f|LtH fR@g
 
f|LtH fR@g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: City 17
Posts: 93
Default Re: CryEngine shadowing investigation...

Ok, not to troll or anything, but to me, I could careless how much better a game looks or what uses what, at the end of the day, doom 3 sucked and farcry was a blast-that's what i'll remember, not that one used a certain shadowing method. I appreciate the info and it's a great read, but i'm just saying from my own view, even though farcry may lack certain visual effects, I still had 10 times more fun playing it than I did doom 3. Just my opinion, if u enjoyed doom 3, that's great. =)
__________________
@643200+ 1MB Cache / 1024 PC-3200 DDR 400 / eVGA 6800 GT / WD 120 GB HD + 8MB Cache / Dvd 16x/cd-r 52x /
f|LtH fR@g is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 03-03-05, 10:43 AM   #9
Intel17
Is not an Intel fanboi
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Burlington, VT
Posts: 1,368
Default Re: CryEngine shadowing investigation...

Doom 3 was a fun little game, but FarCry, HL2 and UT2004 were more fun than it.

Again, this isn't about how good the games were, but this is focused towards the people who are interested in game engine technology!
Intel17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-05, 10:58 AM   #10
f|LtH fR@g
 
f|LtH fR@g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: City 17
Posts: 93
Default Re: CryEngine shadowing investigation...

is Quake 4 def. coming in 05 or is it just a tenative date? I feel id's engine will show more off more in Q4 than it did in d3. I know the engine has alot of potential, but I didn't see much of it in doom 3..with exception to the shadowing and characters.
__________________
@643200+ 1MB Cache / 1024 PC-3200 DDR 400 / eVGA 6800 GT / WD 120 GB HD + 8MB Cache / Dvd 16x/cd-r 52x /
f|LtH fR@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-05, 10:59 AM   #11
dpagan
Registered User
 
dpagan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 231
Default Re: CryEngine shadowing investigation...

i would like to see what they will do with the doom3 engine in the new quake game
__________________

Spec's:
Abit NF8
Amd Athlon64 2800@2.25Ghz
1GB GeIL Ultra Platinum PC4000@ 7-4-4-2.5
160GB WD Caviar HD 7200RPM 8MB Cache
Chaintech 6600GT@ 550/1000
SB Audigy2


http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=36426
dpagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-05, 11:13 AM   #12
f|LtH fR@g
 
f|LtH fR@g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: City 17
Posts: 93
Default Re: CryEngine shadowing investigation...

same here, we know they can do dark corridors, now they need to uh....let some light on the subject hehe
__________________
@643200+ 1MB Cache / 1024 PC-3200 DDR 400 / eVGA 6800 GT / WD 120 GB HD + 8MB Cache / Dvd 16x/cd-r 52x /
f|LtH fR@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Amazing Soft-Body Physics in CryEngine 3 News Latest Tech And Game Headlines 0 05-29-12 08:40 PM
CryEngine 3 / Beam Physics: Soft Body, Hard Metal News Latest Tech And Game Headlines 0 05-29-12 05:30 PM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2014, nV News.