Go Back   nV News Forums > Software Forums > Gaming Central > MMORPGs

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-04-05, 07:27 PM   #49
UDawg
Retired spammer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,799
Default Re: Everquest 2 high end system verses WoW high end system..

WoW has one huge flaw in it and its name is Iron Forge. The IF lock up KILLS ME! I wish they could link another AH to spread the population over two areas. Put one in SW by the bank but does Blizzard listen to me? NOOOooooo...
UDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-05, 09:13 AM   #50
DaveW
Its me! Hurray!
 
DaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brit in USA
Posts: 1,203
Default Re: Everquest 2 high end system verses WoW high end system..

Quote:
Originally Posted by |MaguS|
MMORPGs are bottlenecked by CPU because they have so much more background opperations. They have to calculate all the math during combat, plus locations of objects and characters constantly. Its not like Doom 3 that only needs to calculate 4 things on screen at once, it needs to do 50 or more random objects (wether it be a player running by or another NPC near by) at any given time.

Umm no, in a MMORPG your CPU is not doing the math during combat. Its would be too open to hacking. All your PC does is tell the server "okay, I am attacking this person now". And server goes through all the process of determining when each sword swipe or arrow twang is done, what damage is rolled, how much damage is reduced to armor resistance etc. Your PC basically just sits back and reports the numbers as it gets them from the server. Seeing you char actually swing his sword or shoot an arrow is just mindless graphical effect added on top.

Also, I don't know what EQ2 is like, but with WoW most of the world is static, its all just part of the map. Only a few things like NPCs and player chars actually move, and there is no collision detection on them. E.g. you can't drop a box infront of an NPC and watch him kick it or walk around it. Infact in WoW you can stand infront of an NPC or player and he will just walk straight through you.

There is a network bottleneck when you are in a city with hundreds of players and NPCs around you. The server has to update you with their location several times a second. This is probably why most NPCs in cities don't move. Still, network lag should not affect your framerate. They should be in different threads and independant processes. E.g. in a high load situation you should expect to see characters move in a jerky manner, but you can still rotate your FoV and look around the world with a good framerate.
__________________

Core2 Q9400 @ 3.0, eVGA GTX 260, 4G DDR 800, Vista64
DaveW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-05, 08:10 PM   #51
seliris
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1
Default Re: Everquest 2 high end system verses WoW high end system..

This is the funniest thread I have ever read. People use game play as a means to argue engine performance?

To even compare EverQuest 2's engine API with World of Warcraft... LOL.

You can argue over game play all you want but just look at the features that both engines can utilize. I'm sorry but that was just too funny. I leave you to your forum.
seliris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-05, 01:39 AM   #52
Vagrant Zero
I'm a Back Door Man
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,750
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant Zero
Default Re: Everquest 2 high end system verses WoW high end system..

Quote:
Originally Posted by UDawg
WoW has one huge flaw in it and its name is Iron Forge. The IF lock up KILLS ME! I wish they could link another AH to spread the population over two areas. Put one in SW by the bank but does Blizzard listen to me? NOOOooooo...
They listened...though it took em a year.
__________________
o <---- Dev
|\_o <---- Paladin
// \
Vagrant Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-05, 07:06 PM   #53
killahsin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,496
Default Re: Everquest 2 high end system verses WoW high end system..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
Umm no, in a MMORPG your CPU is not doing the math during combat. Its would be too open to hacking. All your PC does is tell the server "okay, I am attacking this person now". And server goes through all the process of determining when each sword swipe or arrow twang is done, what damage is rolled, how much damage is reduced to armor resistance etc. Your PC basically just sits back and reports the numbers as it gets them from the server. Seeing you char actually swing his sword or shoot an arrow is just mindless graphical effect added on top.

Also, I don't know what EQ2 is like, but with WoW most of the world is static, its all just part of the map. Only a few things like NPCs and player chars actually move, and there is no collision detection on them. E.g. you can't drop a box infront of an NPC and watch him kick it or walk around it. Infact in WoW you can stand infront of an NPC or player and he will just walk straight through you.

There is a network bottleneck when you are in a city with hundreds of players and NPCs around you. The server has to update you with their location several times a second. This is probably why most NPCs in cities don't move. Still, network lag should not affect your framerate. They should be in different threads and independant processes. E.g. in a high load situation you should expect to see characters move in a jerky manner, but you can still rotate your FoV and look around the world with a good framerate.
Quoted for truth.
EQ2 on the other hand is very gpu and cpu limited due to the nature of its coding. What dave touches on is a big problem for most mmo develoeprs. Especially those using new 3d engines. The framerate issue also has alot to do with the way mmo's pre-draw everything behind buildings even if you can't see them. Silly things like database issues, that cause cache lag which eats your memory/swap/hd due to dbase flagging of characters in your vicinities inventory. In EQ2 of course many of the npc's in the cities move around. Designing mmos is so complex most don't understand what they are getting into until they hit closed beta and double digit thousands kill their network and servers, and expose fundemental database flaws. This is one of the main reasons wow had such a long beta period. Wow from closed beta to release, is basically 2 completly different games.
__________________
Quote:
MSI 780i diamond sli.
8400 core 2 duo.
2 x msi 9600 gt oc's @ 760x1950.
4 gigs ram.
R.I.P. Ritual
killahsin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-05, 07:12 PM   #54
angshuman
Pink GBA
 
angshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 207
Default Re: Everquest 2 high end system verses WoW high end system..

Quote:
Originally Posted by killahsin
... mmo's pre-draw everything behind buildings even if you can't see them.
Why is that?
__________________
Rig 1: Athlon64 X2 4800+ Toledo | BFG GeForce 7800GTX 256MB | MSI Neo4 Platinum SLI | 1GB DDR400 Corsair ValueSelect | 80GB Hitachi SATA + 160GB WD IDE | Samsung DVD+/-RW | Sony DVD-ROM | Enermax 535W | Logitech Z-3 | Logitech MX1000 | Dell 1905FP

Rig 2: Athlon64 3300+ Clawhammer | eVGA GeForce 6200A | ECS 760GX-M Micro ATX | 512MB DDR333 pqi | 10GB WD IDE | Liteon DVD-ROM | Athenatech A106 Case with 200W PSU | Logitech Cordless Desktop Express | Logitech X-530
angshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-05, 04:18 AM   #55
killahsin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,496
Default Re: Everquest 2 high end system verses WoW high end system..

I dunno unreal engine does it too so...It's just a engine thing. But most mmos prefer doing it because of the fact that mobs can aggro from behind architecture u can't see and so forth,a nd the dataabse back end on equipment on players u can't see. Plus the fov rendering method might cause alot of problems if a group of 2000 chars decides to run by you from behidn a building outside your fov.
__________________
Quote:
MSI 780i diamond sli.
8400 core 2 duo.
2 x msi 9600 gt oc's @ 760x1950.
4 gigs ram.
R.I.P. Ritual
killahsin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-05, 10:09 AM   #56
Tygerwoody
mega ultra God Tit Lord
 
Tygerwoody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,934
Default Re: Everquest 2 high end system verses WoW high end system..

Quote:
Originally Posted by angshuman
Why is that?
Pathing issues


There are alot of exploits that you can take advantage if mobs cannot see behind walls. I know
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadhog View Post
if tygerwoody says its bad, its bad.
Tygerwoody is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 12-15-05, 12:49 PM   #57
MrSavoy
Registered User
 
MrSavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 443
Default Re: Everquest 2 high end system verses WoW high end system..

WoW will be changing the AH from IF only to several different major cities to limit the load on IF. It's supposed to come in a patch real soon from what I understand.
__________________
CM Stacker 830SE w/Real Power Pro, 80 PLUS, 1000W Power Supply / EVGA X58 3XSLI
Intel CI7 920 @ 3.77Ghz w/Corsair, 6GB (3 x 2GB) Dominator XMP PC3-12800 DDR3 1600MHz CL9 (8-8-8-24)
THERMALRIGHT, Ultra-120 eXtreme 1366 RT CPU Cooler w/MX-2 High-Performance Thermal Compound
3x EVGA, GeForce GTX 470's Superclocked (TRI-SLI) / 2x WESTERN DIGITAL, 640GB WD Caviar Black (WD6401AALS) (Raid 0) / LITE-ON CD-R/CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive / SAMSUNG DVD R/RW / Windows 7 Home Premium 64 / Westy 37" 1080P
MrSavoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-05, 01:05 PM   #58
jolle
Registered User
 
jolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,804
Default Re: Everquest 2 high end system verses WoW high end system..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tygerwoody
Pathing issues


There are alot of exploits that you can take advantage if mobs cannot see behind walls. I know
but then again, shouldnt AI, run on the server, be working independant of what the renderer is pulling up on screen.. I mean the geometry is still there, both on your computer and at the server, even if the renderer draws it or not..
Occlusion culling shouldnt cause any problems in a MMO id think.. but then again I dont really know hehe..

Anyhow, WOW is pretty simple in terms of graphics, but the style of it is amazing IMO..
I cant get enough of the enviroments in WOW, and maybe it looks soo good in my eyes cause it isnt trying to look real, its closer to a cartoonish style.. while EQ2 is doing more of a effort to look real, and thus suffers a bit since it really cant...
dunno, EQ2 definatly has better and more advanced graphics, no doubt, but I think WOW looks "better" on the whole.. (worth mention is Ive played WOW, but only seen EQ2 on screens and video clips)
__________________
Q6700, Abit X38 QuadGT, 8Gb (4x 2GB) OCZ Reaper DDR2 1066MHz, Gainward GTX 285 1Gb, X-Fi XtremeMusic
jolle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-05, 02:27 PM   #59
Tygerwoody
mega ultra God Tit Lord
 
Tygerwoody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,934
Default Re: Everquest 2 high end system verses WoW high end system..

Quote:
Originally Posted by jolle
but then again, shouldnt AI, run on the server, be working independant of what the renderer is pulling up on screen.. I mean the geometry is still there, both on your computer and at the server, even if the renderer draws it or not..
Occlusion culling shouldnt cause any problems in a MMO id think.. but then again I dont really know hehe..

Anyhow, WOW is pretty simple in terms of graphics, but the style of it is amazing IMO..
I cant get enough of the enviroments in WOW, and maybe it looks soo good in my eyes cause it isnt trying to look real, its closer to a cartoonish style.. while EQ2 is doing more of a effort to look real, and thus suffers a bit since it really cant...
dunno, EQ2 definatly has better and more advanced graphics, no doubt, but I think WOW looks "better" on the whole.. (worth mention is Ive played WOW, but only seen EQ2 on screens and video clips)
EQ2 is absolutely breathtaking if you can get smooth frames... but in case you haven't noticed.... thats the whole problem
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadhog View Post
if tygerwoody says its bad, its bad.
Tygerwoody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-05, 01:26 PM   #60
angshuman
Pink GBA
 
angshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 207
Default Re: Everquest 2 high end system verses WoW high end system..

Quote:
Originally Posted by jolle
but then again, shouldnt AI, run on the server, be working independant of what the renderer is pulling up on screen.. I mean the geometry is still there, both on your computer and at the server, even if the renderer draws it or not.. Occlusion culling shouldnt cause any problems in a MMO id think.. but then again I dont really know hehe..
Yes, that was pretty much what I was wondering too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jolle
Anyhow, WOW is pretty simple in terms of graphics, but the style of it is amazing IMO.. I cant get enough of the enviroments in WOW, and maybe it looks soo good in my eyes cause it isnt trying to look real, its closer to a cartoonish style.. while EQ2 is doing more of a effort to look real, and thus suffers a bit since it really cant... dunno, EQ2 definatly has better and more advanced graphics, no doubt, but I think WOW looks "better" on the whole.. (worth mention is Ive played WOW, but only seen EQ2 on screens and video clips)
I agree... although my intense, passionate, and borderline maniacal hatred for Sony could be interfering with my objective reasoning abilities.
__________________
Rig 1: Athlon64 X2 4800+ Toledo | BFG GeForce 7800GTX 256MB | MSI Neo4 Platinum SLI | 1GB DDR400 Corsair ValueSelect | 80GB Hitachi SATA + 160GB WD IDE | Samsung DVD+/-RW | Sony DVD-ROM | Enermax 535W | Logitech Z-3 | Logitech MX1000 | Dell 1905FP

Rig 2: Athlon64 3300+ Clawhammer | eVGA GeForce 6200A | ECS 760GX-M Micro ATX | 512MB DDR333 pqi | 10GB WD IDE | Liteon DVD-ROM | Athenatech A106 Case with 200W PSU | Logitech Cordless Desktop Express | Logitech X-530
angshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2014, nV News.