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Old 05-31-05, 08:05 AM   #61
ChrisRay
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Default Re: My Indepth Comparison of WoW verses EQ2.

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Originally Posted by Elderblaze
Don't count on Next gen PC's for releif on this pos game. Dual core will do absolutely nothing for EQ2 and we are not getting faster single core chips for a long time if ever. The game dosent even take adavantage of Current graphics hardware properly so don't expect much relief there either. The best thing that could happen to EQ2 other then getting competent programers, is the PPU, this game is severly processor bound, mostly do to piss poor programing, but the new PPU hardware may be able to deliver some releif with Brute force, however that requires Sony to support it... don't hold your breath.
PPU? You're kidding right? EQ 2 doesnt really have anything that would benefit from PPU. Before you insult the EQ 2 programmer capabilities. You should do some research on the subject at hand. The PPU is specifically designed to handle physics.
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Old 05-31-05, 03:37 PM   #62
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Default Re: My Indepth Comparison of WoW verses EQ2.

I know exactly what PPU's do. And they most certainly would help a game like EQ2. Cloth simulation, and particle effects would be massivly sped up. Dosent sound like im the one that is ignorant here, why don't you watch the Ageia E3 video's the go go's on and on about how the new PPU's will do awsome things for particle effects. PPU support should allow you to run Dense particle effects on a raid with 20 people all casting at the same time with little performance hit.
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Old 05-31-05, 03:48 PM   #63
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Default Re: My Indepth Comparison of WoW verses EQ2.

It can only affect particles if the particles are being used by physics (water flowing randomly, sparks from stuff blowing up, exc...), EQ2s particles are not random, they are a script, there is no physics in them at all, they are not randomized in any way or controlled by a physics system.

In the demo, the particles were not scripted to react a certain way, they were thrown onto the car was reacted randomly depending on physics. They moved and flowed depending on actual physics.

The only thing I can see a PPU helping EQ2 with is cloth simulation and water interaction (not he water but how it reacts to players).
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Old 06-01-05, 12:23 AM   #64
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Default Re: My Indepth Comparison of WoW verses EQ2.

Fair enough magus, I stand corrected. Though if it's not physics why the hell is EQ2 so damn cpu dependant? I just don't get it. It's not AI, it's not Phsycis. the GPU should handle Lighting, Geometry, and most other things graphics related.EQ2's Network overhead shouldent be anymore then any other MMO either.
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Old 06-01-05, 03:49 AM   #65
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Default Re: My Indepth Comparison of WoW verses EQ2.

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Originally Posted by Elderblaze
Fair enough magus, I stand corrected. Though if it's not physics why the hell is EQ2 so damn cpu dependant? I just don't get it. It's not AI, it's not Phsycis. the GPU should handle Lighting, Geometry, and most other things graphics related.EQ2's Network overhead shouldent be anymore then any other MMO either.
There are numerous reasons why. EQ 2 offloads plenty of geometry data to the CPU, This is for compatibility sakes I imagine since most people dont have high end graphic cards. It already runs poorly enough on low end systems. Can you imagine if all geometry data was being done on Radeon 9000/5200 cards with their very low vertex performance?

Add, to the fact the CPU processes the animation detail, ((Which is the most fluid in MMORPG's to date, Network code,), It's really no different than what happened to EQ 3 years ago on Luclins release. Oh and dont forget the large memory footprint of all the models/textures. There might also be some problems with the way EQ handles drawing polygons in the distance. Either way. The CPU does all the work.

Keep in mind. WoW for example has extremely low poly counts so this not a problem.
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Old 06-01-05, 04:43 AM   #66
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Default Re: My Indepth Comparison of WoW verses EQ2.

And hence the reason I cancelled my EQ2 account, it's really a shame to pimp Nvidia hardware and then not use it. It's just flat out wrong. How hard would it have been to program 2 geometry engines for Software and Hardware... It dosent really matter how hard it would have been, it should have been done period. If they won't even use current video hardware they sure as hell arnt going to support dual cores. It's hilarious to see people make statments like "in a couple years time EQ2 will be runing great on next gen hardware" when in fact unless the dev's focus on performance it is currently about as good as it's gonna ever get.
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Old 06-01-05, 06:40 AM   #67
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Default Re: My Indepth Comparison of WoW verses EQ2.

It's very hard and time demanding... Honestly do you think it would take a weekend to recode the engine to take advantage of different hardware? It would take months and would need a dedicated team, they only have a team of 12 or so poeple working on bugs, the rest work on extra content... Thats why EQ2 gets so much content because now that the ground work has been completed the other members can move onto different projects. Its optimizing the staff so they dont need to hire/fire people.
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Old 06-02-05, 12:58 AM   #68
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Default Re: My Indepth Comparison of WoW verses EQ2.

Magus it should have been done months ago during development, it's to late now. That's a lame excuse, every other game developer out there has found the time to do it right. Instead of half-assed. And they don't have to make it take advantage of "Different hardware" they just have to code it to take advantage of DX8/9 Vertex shaders. Hell even WOW has hardware Vertex support. They code it properly, once in DX, and direct x is responsible for making it work with "Different hardware" Doom 3 has like 4 different render path's it's not hard at all to detect if the user is using a high end video card and switch rendering methods to acomidate, they had a responsibility to their customer to make their product take advantage of DX9 level hardware that they've been pimping for a couple of years as the best thing sinced sliced ****ing bread for EQ2.

It's akin to buying a 05 Pontiac GTO with a hardwired 40 MPH speed limit(that the dealer forgot to mention). woohoo for car analogies.

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Old 06-02-05, 08:29 AM   #69
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Default Re: My Indepth Comparison of WoW verses EQ2.

Um EQ2 does have hardware vertex support, it takes advantage of your GPU but it doesn't throw everything on it because current GPUs would fry. In a single zone there is alot more graphics data being calculated then even Farcry. Remember the game has to already know whever EVERY character and Mob in the zone is all the time while your in that zone. That requires CPU power to plot proper courses and animations... WoW has horrible lag due to the fact that it doesn't plot that many characters at once, I have seen many times characters just pop near me because the game didn't keep up.

BTW Im playing WoW currently, not EQ2.
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Old 06-02-05, 09:57 AM   #70
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Default Re: My Indepth Comparison of WoW verses EQ2.

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Originally Posted by |MaguS|
Um EQ2 does have hardware vertex support, it takes advantage of your GPU but it doesn't throw everything on it because current GPUs would fry. In a single zone there is alot more graphics data being calculated then even Farcry. Remember the game has to already know whever EVERY character and Mob in the zone is all the time while your in that zone. That requires CPU power to plot proper courses and animations... WoW has horrible lag due to the fact that it doesn't plot that many characters at once, I have seen many times characters just pop near me because the game didn't keep up.

BTW Im playing WoW currently, not EQ2.

You mean the way WOW clips charactors? I actually think this is a sensible optimisation. There's no reason you should care about whats going on down the mountain. But yes this can happen. Specially when loading areas like Ironforge near the AH where its most noticable. It seems logical considering the way the world is designed and connected. They need to start clipping somewhere. My only complaint about WoW performance right now is related somewhat to this issue. Right when zoning into IF and it starts loading all the charactors. I will literally freeze up for 15-30 seconds at a time. Its very irritating to say the least.
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Old 06-02-05, 10:27 PM   #71
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Default Re: My Indepth Comparison of WoW verses EQ2.

I'd say the most frustrating part about WoW's pop up chars is that on a PvP server I want to see who's "down the mountain"

As it is I'm running down the road and BAM! 45 Alliance thug wannabes and their ?? babysitters appear in front of me and I end up seeing how roadkill feels.


I'd sooooo love for them to do something about that...maximum viewing range should be just that.
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Old 06-03-05, 12:27 AM   #72
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Default Re: My Indepth Comparison of WoW verses EQ2.

Magus, so your saying no other MMO out there has to keep track of 100 roaming NPC's and their destination? I don't buy it, keep trying when you find the real reason i'll let you know what I think. I think i'd risk my GPU being fried for comparison sake, this is just sh itty programing, really.
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