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View Poll Results: Which gaming console are you more excited about?
PlayStation 3 91 67.91%
Xbox 360 43 32.09%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-18-05, 05:35 PM   #73
Gaco
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Default Re: PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360

Think logically, of cause it was not rendered realtime from PS3 hardware, thats simply impossible from this stage. Remember, the PS3 hardware is too on the alpha-stage, but Sony just chose to view most of their demonstrations as pre-rendered, while MS chose to show ingame footage all the way. There's no right or wrong method, because Sony only shows what is to be expected from the PS3 at the time of arrival. But notice that this also means, that the movies and screenshots from Xbox360 does not represent anything like the graphics we're gonna see when it's done. It's hardware and dev-kit is also just in the alpha-phase and we have only seen this, not predictions.

"Just saw Peter Moore speak on CNBC saying every 360 game at E3 is running on Alpha kits. Not sure if he meant the dev kits or the actual hardware. but the actual games are playable, unlike sony's tech demos that ran off high-powered PC's. (yeah, he took a shot at sony....which i thought was funny.) he also stated, once the beta kits and then the final kits come in... you will see the true power of 360."

Also:

"The best way to look at it is that, well it depends on which functions you're looking at, but in aggregate it's probably 30-40% of what the final product can do."
Rest of the mini-intervew at:
[url]http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1817028,00.asp[url]

Besides from that, I just know it secondhand from some fellas, one of my friends know, who are at E3 right now...


All I'm saying is just that it's still way too early to say anything about which machine will be most powerful.. But surely, none of them will "own" the other.
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Old 05-18-05, 05:38 PM   #74
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Default Re: PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/616/616196p1.html

Great little sneakpeak on Perfect Dark Zero.

And btw, concerning 360's compatibility with old Xbox-games:

Quote:
We are working very hard to get compatibility. Of course the prioritization in our technical work is in the leading selling games from the first generation, just like the PS2 didn’t run all PS1 games, it is unlikely we’ll ever be able to say the 360 will run all Xbox 1 games. I think there are some games if we get them to run that means many, many other games will run, and I think rather than give some statement that is either too conservative (because the engineers can do better), or a bold statement we can’t live up to, we thought we’d make our strategy clear that as we get further down the road and as our engineers do more work, the execution will speak for itself.
- http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000597043723/
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Old 05-18-05, 05:42 PM   #75
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Default Re: PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360

Quote:
Originally Posted by killahsin
you guys do realize that kill zone was very much mostly real time. From my inspections of the hd video of it the onl;y section that doesnt seem real time based on aliasing is the intro on the ships.
Where do you suppose the HD video came from, a finished PS3 which I understand is non-existent or an underpowered dev box? Do you actually believe the dev box can render Killzone 2 in realtime at that framerate? Have you ever considered the likelihood that they used the dev boxes to pre-render those at 1080p and not at some ridiculously high resolution?

Serious Sam Second Encounter allows offline rendering of a demo file at any resolution and at any frame rate you specify. If I gave you a DivXHD 1080p, 60fps recording of SS:SE made from my lowly Radeon 8500, would you be fooled into thinking that it was recorded in realtime?
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Old 05-18-05, 06:07 PM   #76
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Default Re: PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360

If you need furthur proof:

Quote:
Guerrilla's stunning PLAYSTATION 3 trailer, showing the future of the Killzone series, is the talk of the town here in LA (as well as the Internet at large). We did some digging...

Jan-Bart Van Beek is the Game Director of the PS3 Killzone at Guerrilla Games, and has spent the last few months working on the trailer that really blew the crowd away at Monday's PLAYSTATION 3 unveiling. After a second showing of the trailer at today's SCEE conference received another rapturous round of applause, we caught up with Jan to find out more.

How do you feel about the reaction to the trailer that was shown yesterday?

Jan-Bart: It's been an amazing reception, the rush you get from seeing your own stuff on the big screen like that, and then the reaction to it, it's a big rush, I'm really happy about it.

How long ago did work start on the sequence?

Jan-Bart: We started working on it in late November, and only finished it three days before the show, at the very, very last moment!

It seemed like Killzone, only more so! Is that what we can expect from the finished game?

Jan-Bart: We want to avoid having just Killzone with more beautiful graphics. We want to add a lot more to it than that. So we're adding a lot more character interaction, with the ways they respond to you and how you can react to them. There's a lot more interactions between characters like you see in the trailer, people dragging each other off out of combat and helping each other, giving each other their weapons - a lot more real human interaction, basically.

[Ben Duncan, the game's Producer] It's like with the Alfred Molina demo, the quality of facial animation we can get with the characters means you'll really feel that emotional sense of being part of a unit and fighting together. Characters working together, comrades pulling each other back from the field of battle; that kind of thing is really going to move the genre forward.

There's a great moment where you see an ISA ally take out a Helghan with his rifle butt to save your bacon... is that representative of the kind of sophisticated behaviour we'll start seeing in artificial intelligence when PS3 arrives?

Jan-Bart: Yes, totally, it's just the start. Characters will be very aware, very alert to how they might be able to help you. That moment [with the rifle butt] is a good example of how it can add a little visual 'wow' to it all.

Is the Killzone sequence a fair example of what people can expect from realtime gameplay on PLAYSTATION 3?

Jan-Bart: Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make.

Have you found PS3 easy to work with?

JB: Yes, we're really impressed with it. The Cell is amazingly powerful, and the graphics CPU [the RSX, co-developed with Nvidia] in there... it's actually hard to mimic it on our development PCs, we have to see it on the PS3 hardware itself. It's really nice to be working with such powerful hardware.

As yet, high definition TV isn't that widespread, especially in Europe - are you concerned that some players won't get to see your game in as much detail as is intended?

JB: No, I think in two, three years' time, HDTV will be a lot more accepted, in Europe too. We'll start out with 720p and then [onto 1080p] as there's now this product [PS3] that people will want to buy a new TV for.

Thanks, and congratulations on the work.

Notice:

Jan-Bart: Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make."

Which means, that is what they EXPECT it to look like.

And:

"it's actually hard to mimic it on our development PCs, we have to see it on the PS3 hardware itself."

Which means, they're working on very powerful PC's...
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Old 05-18-05, 06:17 PM   #77
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Default Re: PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360

Yeah, but didn't the specs prove that RSX > 6800Ultra Sli ?

What cards would their dev pc be using then ? Quadro's ? yeah sure. But we
all know Quadro's kinda suck at ingame performance. They're made for viewport performance in Maya or Max.
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Old 05-18-05, 06:20 PM   #78
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Default Re: PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmontem
Where do you suppose the HD video came from, a finished PS3 which I understand is non-existent or an underpowered dev box? Do you actually believe the dev box can render Killzone 2 in realtime at that framerate? Have you ever considered the likelihood that they used the dev boxes to pre-render those at 1080p and not at some ridiculously high resolution?

Serious Sam Second Encounter allows offline rendering of a demo file at any resolution and at any frame rate you specify. If I gave you a DivXHD 1080p, 60fps recording of SS:SE made from my lowly Radeon 8500, would you be fooled into thinking that it was recorded in realtime?

the hd video came from shacknews silly its all shakey cam of a big screen but at very high quality lol. But i'll tell you what if you guys want to say that the developers of kz2 are lying thats fine with me.

dude its a tech demo trailer just like what hl2 was when it was first introduced and everyoen claimed it wasnt real time. they render to frames people lol. So basically what you guys are fighting over was the fact it was a video and not ran in real time during the presentation, if thats the case than your correct. But you can be sure that is WHAT the game will look like IN real time when u buy your ps3. You all read the comment from the guy at 1up saying hsi buddy who works on kz stated that pretty much all of it is real time. Yet you all insist on twisting and turning whatever you can into evidence that it isn't real time. I do find it funny. No im not a kz fanboy hell i probabnly won't even have the tiem to play it lol. But that doesnt mean im going to just bash the game because i cant believe its not real time. I'm sitting in max right now working on a scene with a ton more poly's than that. so I'm quite sure i can believe thats real time or will be.
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Old 05-18-05, 06:43 PM   #79
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Default Re: PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360

Let me make myself clear: The demo didn't run in realtime on PS3 hardware. It was developed with alpha-state dev-kit and prerendered on non-PS3 hardware. It shows what the makers of KZ2 think we can expect when it comes out at some point, but the point really is that it wasn't rendered in realtime, not on PS3 at least. My point is, that it can not be compared to those screens and videos we see from Xbox360, since almost every movieclip from Xbox360 games have been in realtime rendering on alpha-state Xbox360-hardware still in development, which is currently only at about 40% the speed of what they expect the final Xbox360 to be.
All I do is that I react on all those "omg, the PS3 looks sooo much better, of all that I have seen so far, it's gonna own Xbox360!". Well duh, it's non-realtime against realtime, so go figure
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Old 05-18-05, 06:46 PM   #80
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Default Re: PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/616/616396p1.html

theres some more killzone screenshots for you. Alot of aliasing blur going on there for thsoe to be pre-rendered. Hey you might be right, but im not sure why developers would lie. Also from what i understand or how i read that interview he is simply stating that they couldnt reproduce the effects on their pc and had to actyually watch it on the ps3 hardware in order to see it in all its glory, which i can understand considering ppus are still not mainstream. For instance peep the barrel of the gun in the last screenshot. If thats prerendered the cg people suck, and I would fire them if i were them.
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Old 05-18-05, 07:17 PM   #81
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Default Re: PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaco
Let me make myself clear: The demo didn't run in realtime on PS3 hardware. It was developed with alpha-state dev-kit and prerendered on non-PS3 hardware. It shows what the makers of KZ2 think we can expect when it comes out at some point, but the point really is that it wasn't rendered in realtime, not on PS3 at least. My point is, that it can not be compared to those screens and videos we see from Xbox360, since almost every movieclip from Xbox360 games have been in realtime rendering on alpha-state Xbox360-hardware still in development, which is currently only at about 40% the speed of what they expect the final Xbox360 to be.
All I do is that I react on all those "omg, the PS3 looks sooo much better, of all that I have seen so far, it's gonna own Xbox360!". Well duh, it's non-realtime against realtime, so go figure
It's not like ps3 dev kits are horribley underpowered compared to the console which is a year away. Secondly, just becuase it wasn't run on PS3 hardware doesn't make it pre-rendered, seems like you don't know the difference between pre-rendered and real-time.

Methinks you're an Xbox fanboy who is performing damage control. Get over it, the PS3 will be the more powerful unit. The question is can devs put that power to good use.
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Old 05-18-05, 09:09 PM   #82
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Default Re: PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaco
Let me make myself clear: The demo didn't run in realtime on PS3 hardware. It was developed with alpha-state dev-kit and prerendered on non-PS3 hardware. It shows what the makers of KZ2 think we can expect when it comes out at some point, but the point really is that it wasn't rendered in realtime, not on PS3 at least. My point is, that it can not be compared to those screens and videos we see from Xbox360, since almost every movieclip from Xbox360 games have been in realtime rendering on alpha-state Xbox360-hardware still in development, which is currently only at about 40% the speed of what they expect the final Xbox360 to be.
All I do is that I react on all those "omg, the PS3 looks sooo much better, of all that I have seen so far, it's gonna own Xbox360!". Well duh, it's non-realtime against realtime, so go figure
Very well said. Even the PS3 and XBOX 360 hardware aren't finalize yet! They are still in alpha/beta stages. How can that KillZone footage be realtime if the hardware isn't complete yet? It's like I've said a billion times, you can't make a true judgement on the consoles and games until you they actually release into the public.
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Old 05-18-05, 10:56 PM   #83
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Default Re: PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360

Check this out! Turns out all of the XBOX 360 demos are running off of PowerMacs instead of the actual consoles. I told you the consoles weren't ready to go!

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/...spx?i=2420&p=5
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Old 05-18-05, 11:11 PM   #84
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Default Re: PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360

thats been know for a long time those are the dev kits silly, the same as the ps3 devkit is a cell system with sli 6800s. Of course the consoles arent ready lol
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