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Old 05-27-05, 01:19 PM   #61
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Default Re: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360

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Originally Posted by Toss3
Hmm I was just wondering one little thing; will the Ps3 and Xbox360 games be developed so that you could change the resolution, by changing the TV outlet? So that games running on regular TVs would run faster, I mean it couldn't be very difficult to make the game run two or three different resolutions?
The console will likely still render at 720p internally even when set to 480p so that lower resolutions like 480p get a free SSAA effect in addition to the 4xMSAA effect builtin (would be like visual quality of a Nvidia 6xS of sorts with no performance hit at all). This would result in less jaggies than if they console just rendered in 480p with 4xMSAA. Anyway, games will also be normed to run smooth at 720p with locked framerates, so odds are it wouldn't go much faster at 480p.
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Old 05-27-05, 05:56 PM   #62
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Default Re: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360

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Originally Posted by Toss3
Nor are there any xbox360's! So both Microsoft and Sony showed games that weren't running on their own console <=> Sony on the other hand showed us games with better graphics(noone can know if they showed in-game material, not even you steeda), so he can say that he was impressed.

And btw, how do you know that there aren't any Ps3s in the world? Are you working for Sony or something? Cuz' noone other than Nvidia or Sony can know for sure(except IBM and some game developers) if there are any Ps3s.
(I know I said there weren't any xbox360's either, but I also know that there might be some finished already)

So steeda I just want to ask you, why you're buying Microsoft's BS while you aren't buying Sony's? You cannot judge either one before they arrive :P and none of them have showed any in-game footage as of yet.

And Blu-ray is a welcome feature(IMO) of the ps3, even thugh I haven't got a HDTV compatible TV yet, but the next TV I'll buy will probably support it.
And developers like Square, might have use for the extra space. Remember, they usually make their games over ~100hours(if you want to complete it to 100%). And I'm pretty sure that FF X made use of all the space on a DVD and the graphics weren't that fantastic. So if they want to make FF XIII to look much better than FF X, with over 100Hours of gameplay 4Gbs just won't be enough.
Sony showed us games with better quality because a bunch of them were prerendered, and would of looked that way even if they had been programmed on a GF2

Microsoft showed us games played in realtime, with downgraded quality, so they could play on the Macs. Why Macs? Because Macs are them best possible example of what the real X360 will perform like

We know there are no PS3s in the world because Nvidia SPECIFICALLY said that their video card is not compled and it has not been taped out. So lets think- can you have a completed console without the video card?

Games that give you 100 hours of gameplay are probably ganna reuse the same textures a bunch. Just because it has twice as long of gameplay doesn't mean the size will be twice as big. Plus not many complanies are ganna put that much time and money into creating a game that plays for 100 hours. Why?

A) Less profit. Same amount of people will most likely buy it, while it would of cost more to make
B) Longer production time. 2 decent games will make more money than 1 long game
C) If people are busy playing their 100 hour game, they won't be buying new games as quickly. Less money into their products, other people's products, and the console industry

Yes, 4 GB might not be enough. I guess that's why Microsoft doubled it

Know your facts, and use some logic next time

K
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Old 05-27-05, 09:14 PM   #63
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Default Re: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360

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Originally Posted by Ruined
XBOX360's Dual Layer DVD format holds 8.5gb, not 4gb. Final Fantasy X only took up 4.3gb on PS2.
Xenosaga took up 1 full Dual Layer DVD and it only had 1 FMV. Almost 10 gigs. Star Ocean came in 2 standard DVDs and it had practically no FMVs [a few, nowhere near the amount of the FF games].

Blu-ray is good. I don't think anyone sane will argue that point unless they have an agenda to push.
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Old 05-27-05, 10:15 PM   #64
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Default Re: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360

Xenosaga had about an hour of FMV actually, but even then I can't understand what about it really used all of that space. Although I'm begining to wonder if they used AC3 sound for the voiceovers, which would definately account for the extra size. However 99% of the time, the only reason a game takes up much space is just because they were inefficient. Just look at Halo: the Xbox version was 3 gigs, yet the PC version fit on a single CD-rom. I actually expect game sizes to decrease a bit since FMVs are being made almost totally obsolite. Even PS1 games like FF8 had over 2 gigs of data on them, yet nowadays the average game isn't much bigger despite the technology jump. There is of course a limit to where decreasing the storage space can have a detremental effect on games (just look at the over-compression or cut media of some Gamecube games because of their 1.5gb discs), but I honestly can't see games getting larger than 9 gigs for a long, long time.

BluRay as a technology is good, but adding $50 onto the retail price of the console because of it isn't something I'm looking forward to. I'd rather they make the harddrive standard rather than have larger disc storage capacity.
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Old 05-29-05, 12:51 PM   #65
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Default Re: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360

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Originally Posted by kev13dd
Sony showed us games with better quality because a bunch of them were prerendered, and would of looked that way even if they had been programmed on a GF2

Microsoft showed us games played in realtime, with downgraded quality, so they could play on the Macs. Why Macs? Because Macs are them best possible example of what the real X360 will perform like

We know there are no PS3s in the world because Nvidia SPECIFICALLY said that their video card is not compled and it has not been taped out. So lets think- can you have a completed console without the video card?

Games that give you 100 hours of gameplay are probably ganna reuse the same textures a bunch. Just because it has twice as long of gameplay doesn't mean the size will be twice as big. Plus not many complanies are ganna put that much time and money into creating a game that plays for 100 hours. Why?

A) Less profit. Same amount of people will most likely buy it, while it would of cost more to make
B) Longer production time. 2 decent games will make more money than 1 long game
C) If people are busy playing their 100 hour game, they won't be buying new games as quickly. Less money into their products, other people's products, and the console industry

Yes, 4 GB might not be enough. I guess that's why Microsoft doubled it

Know your facts, and use some logic next time

K
Ummm... sony actually had dev-kits playing the games, unlike microsoft. They didn't even hav dev-kits and they're supposed to release their product first? I'm not a Sony fan or anything, I'll definatly get 'em both. But I just hate people who judge before they have even played on one of the consoles in question.

And yes Mac's probably represents the performance of the xbox360(Why Mac's? They suck for gaming?), but so did the 6800Ultra's in SLi running the ps3 games. And there are games like Final Fantasy that have gameplay @ ~100Hours. And why wouldn't companies want players to play their games for 100hours instead of playing other companies' games?
I'd say that if you want a game to look good and have gameplay that is longer than 100hours, then why choose a dual layer dvd instead of using a blu ray disc and not having to cut down on anything?

I still believe that these consoles will be very much equal in terms of graphics, cuz' the games microsoft showed were running on macs. And as you probably all know and as I stated earlier, they suck for gameing. So the graphics on the xbox360 will probably look better ( and if not, tough sh*t, I'll get one anyways!)
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Old 05-29-05, 03:44 PM   #66
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Default Re: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360

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Originally Posted by Toss3
Ummm... sony actually had dev-kits playing the games, unlike microsoft. They didn't even hav dev-kits and they're supposed to release their product first? I'm not a Sony fan or anything, I'll definatly get 'em both. But I just hate people who judge before they have even played on one of the consoles in question.

And yes Mac's probably represents the performance of the xbox360(Why Mac's? They suck for gaming?), but so did the 6800Ultra's in SLi running the ps3 games. And there are games like Final Fantasy that have gameplay @ ~100Hours. And why wouldn't companies want players to play their games for 100hours instead of playing other companies' games?
I'd say that if you want a game to look good and have gameplay that is longer than 100hours, then why choose a dual layer dvd instead of using a blu ray disc and not having to cut down on anything?

I still believe that these consoles will be very much equal in terms of graphics, cuz' the games microsoft showed were running on macs. And as you probably all know and as I stated earlier, they suck for gameing. So the graphics on the xbox360 will probably look better ( and if not, tough sh*t, I'll get one anyways!)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sony didn't have a single playable PS3 for the audience to try

MICROSOFT HAD DEV KITS RUNNING. What do you think the macs were? THEIR DEV KITS!!!! You think they just say "hey, we're Microsoft, lets run some macs for the irony factor"? The dev kits are those macs

They use macs because they have the same type of architecture as the X360 will have. Not the same performance, not the same looks and graphics. It's a lot easier to program games on a structure that will run the same way as the actual console

Microsoft doesn't design the games, they design the hardware. They don't say "hey lets add a 50 dollar blue ray onto our console just so Freddy and Jane can play Final Fantasy". The dual DVD should be plenty for the needs of most game designers. Games that last 100 hours don't use new textures for everything. You know how long it would be to have a unique texture for every single object in a 100 hour long game? They reuse objects, they reuse textures, they reuse A LOT. If it took 4 gigs last console, then it won't be breaking 9 gigs this console

Valve releases new maps for CSS all the time. Each new map isn't 500mb. The new maps are 30mb because a bunch of textures are from the game you already installed. Count in the factor that PC games require more space than console games...

Running off your "I just hate people who judge before they have even played" campaign, you can't tell us how blue ray is better than DVD if you havn't played those 100 hour games on the new consoles, and you havn't seen how much space they will take up. Let them come out first before you jump onto Sony's "our drive makes it better!" bandwagon

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Old 05-29-05, 04:03 PM   #67
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Default Re: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360

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Originally Posted by kev13dd
Running off your "I just hate people who judge before they have even played" campaign, you can't tell us how blue ray is better than DVD if you havn't played those 100 hour games on the new consoles, and you havn't seen how much space they will take up. Let them come out first before you jump onto Sony's "our drive makes it better!" bandwagon

K
Now it's your time to correct me if I'm wrong, but how can you say that blu-ray isn't better than DVDs? They have 5 times more space and they take up just as much room... so I really can't see how they couldn't be better than dvds? Why would blu-ray otherwise be the next format if DVDs were so great, why not just make double layer DVDs?

Yeah the macs were probably Microsoft's dev-kits, but there were ps3 dev-kits also. People seem to forget about that and I was just trying to make that point. It's quite funny that they had macs running as their dev-kits, copying apple once again . But I don't care, macs are much more reliable than pcs and as long as the console doesn't have windows on it, it will be stable!

I'm not saying that the xbox360 will suck for gaming just because it doesn't have blu-ray, that wouldn't be smart at all. Most games probably won't even use all of the space on a double-layer DVD, but some games that require even more space will probably end up on the ps3. And users with HDTV displays supporting 1080p will probably also buy ps3s.

Another thing that bothers me with the xbox, is that you have to pay to play online. Microsoft's online gaming far surpasses Sony's, but on PCs you don't have to pay to play I just hope that Sony will have better online gaming support on their next console, cuz' Xbox Live is really a nice feature of the xbox...
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Old 05-29-05, 05:24 PM   #68
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Default Re: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360

1080p won't influence decision in my opinion, as the difference between 1080p and 1080i is indistinguishable. ( speaking from experience )

The games will be all that matter, not the systems themselves.
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Old 05-29-05, 05:35 PM   #69
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Default Re: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360

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Originally Posted by Toss3
Now it's your time to correct me if I'm wrong, but how can you say that blu-ray isn't better than DVDs? They have 5 times more space and they take up just as much room... so I really can't see how they couldn't be better than dvds? Why would blu-ray otherwise be the next format if DVDs were so great, why not just make double layer DVDs?

Yeah the macs were probably Microsoft's dev-kits, but there were ps3 dev-kits also. People seem to forget about that and I was just trying to make that point. It's quite funny that they had macs running as their dev-kits, copying apple once again . But I don't care, macs are much more reliable than pcs and as long as the console doesn't have windows on it, it will be stable!

I'm not saying that the xbox360 will suck for gaming just because it doesn't have blu-ray, that wouldn't be smart at all. Most games probably won't even use all of the space on a double-layer DVD, but some games that require even more space will probably end up on the ps3. And users with HDTV displays supporting 1080p will probably also buy ps3s.

Another thing that bothers me with the xbox, is that you have to pay to play online. Microsoft's online gaming far surpasses Sony's, but on PCs you don't have to pay to play I just hope that Sony will have better online gaming support on their next console, cuz' Xbox Live is really a nice feature of the xbox...
Yup, you're wrong. I'll correct you. It's not 5 times bigger. That would mean Blue Ray was 50 gigs. Dual layer Blue Ray are, but PS3 is only using single layer, so they can only fit 23. Is 23 5 times greater than 8.5? Um, no

Blue Ray holds more. Yes, I admit that. We aren't talking about which one is better though, or which one holds more. We're talking about the impact it will have on the consoles and games. Not much

So how is Microsoft copying macs by using them as dev kits? Are you copying Microsoft by using a PC with Windows on it? Um, no

No games that take up that much space will be put on one console and not the other. It may be an exclusive title to start off with, but no game will ever go "oops, not enough room for X360, lets not put it out on that and chop off 30% of possible customers". They'll downgrade textures, they'll do whatever, to make it fit

Did you know the X360 supports 1080p?

Did you know that X360's X-box live is ganna be free on the weekends? And that you'll get free downloadable content for any game no matter what, pay or no pay? That every game has to be X-box live compatible with X-box live material online?

It costs Microsoft money to allow X-box live to run. On PC games, one company doesn't handle all the internet traffic for every game. Microsoft does for X-box live. Is it wrong to pay them a mere 4 bucks a month to play your games online during the weekdays?

Did I mention that you get to play free during weekends?

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Old 05-30-05, 07:12 AM   #70
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Default Re: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360

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Originally Posted by kev13dd
Yup, you're wrong. I'll correct you. It's not 5 times bigger. That would mean Blue Ray was 50 gigs. Dual layer Blue Ray are, but PS3 is only using single layer, so they can only fit 23. Is 23 5 times greater than 8.5? Um, no

Blue Ray holds more. Yes, I admit that. We aren't talking about which one is better though, or which one holds more. We're talking about the impact it will have on the consoles and games. Not much

So how is Microsoft copying macs by using them as dev kits? Are you copying Microsoft by using a PC with Windows on it? Um, no

No games that take up that much space will be put on one console and not the other. It may be an exclusive title to start off with, but no game will ever go "oops, not enough room for X360, lets not put it out on that and chop off 30% of possible customers". They'll downgrade textures, they'll do whatever, to make it fit

Did you know the X360 supports 1080p?

Did you know that X360's X-box live is ganna be free on the weekends? And that you'll get free downloadable content for any game no matter what, pay or no pay? That every game has to be X-box live compatible with X-box live material online?

It costs Microsoft money to allow X-box live to run. On PC games, one company doesn't handle all the internet traffic for every game. Microsoft does for X-box live. Is it wrong to pay them a mere 4 bucks a month to play your games online during the weekdays?

Did I mention that you get to play free during weekends?

K
Are you sure it supports 1080p? I thought it couldn't do better than 1080i

and btw I wasn't talking about dual-layer dvds, I was talking about single layer ones! 23/4.5~5 ....!

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html wow, the Ps3 doesn't seem to be as good as sony are saying, on paper that is...

and yeah, xbox live will be free on weekends, didn't know that, which means that micorosft improved their online gaming feature a little bit I was talking about the xbox(not 360), when I said that it was disturbing that you'd have to pay to play online. The xbox360 is beginning to look better and better but we won't know for sure which one's gonna be better until they both are released!
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Old 05-30-05, 07:13 PM   #71
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Default Re: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360

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Originally Posted by Toss3
Are you sure it supports 1080p? I thought it couldn't do better than 1080i

and btw I wasn't talking about dual-layer dvds, I was talking about single layer ones! 23/4.5~5 ....!

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html wow, the Ps3 doesn't seem to be as good as sony are saying, on paper that is...

and yeah, xbox live will be free on weekends, didn't know that, which means that micorosft improved their online gaming feature a little bit I was talking about the xbox(not 360), when I said that it was disturbing that you'd have to pay to play online. The xbox360 is beginning to look better and better but we won't know for sure which one's gonna be better until they both are released!
All games are required to run in 780i (dunno the number for that one, could be wrong) or 1080i. Doesn't mean they can't go higher. That's just the standard for it

Why talk about a single layer DVD if neither console will use it?

Why talk about the old X-box when that has nothing to do with the new consoles? That's crazy talk

Be careful about that article- a bunch of stuff isn't accurate, and no one can really guesstimate on the performance of Cell until we see it in action gaming

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Old 05-30-05, 07:45 PM   #72
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Default Re: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360

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Originally Posted by kev13dd
All games are required to run in 780i (dunno the number for that one, could be wrong) or 1080i. Doesn't mean they can't go higher. That's just the standard for it
http://hardware.gamespot.com/Compare-C-15015-1-4-4
ps3: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
360: 480p, 480i, 720p, 1080i
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