Go Back   nV News Forums > Software Forums > Gaming Central > Console World

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-02-05, 12:48 PM   #1
Ruined
Registered User
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,447
Default XBOX360 CPU more powerful for physics, AI than PS3 Cell

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed...box360-2.ars/7

"At any rate, Playstation 3 fanboys shouldn't get all flush over the idea that the Xenon will struggle on non-graphics code. However bad off Xenon will be in that department, the PS3's Cell will probably be worse. The Cell has only one PPE to the Xenon's three, which means that developers will have to cram all their game control, AI, and physics code into at most two threads that are sharing a very narrow execution core with no instruction window. (Don't bother suggesting that the PS3 can use its SPEs for branch-intensive code, because the SPEs lack branch prediction entirely.) Furthermore, the PS3's L2 is only 512K, which is half the size of the Xenon's L2. So the PS3 doesn't get much help with branches in the cache department. In short, the PS3 may fare a bit worse than the Xenon on non-graphics code, but on the upside it will probably fare a bit better on graphics code because of the seven SPEs.

In sum, the Xenon will certainly make the Xbox 360 a 3D graphics powerhouse."
__________________
We're all in it together.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 2.66GHz CPU | Intel G965WH mobo | 8GB (4x2GB) DDR2-667mhz CAS5 RAM (1066MHz FSB) | BFG GeForce 285 GTX OC 1GB | Dell E228WFP 22" DVI-HDCP LCD Monitor | 1TB Western Digital RE3 SATA2 Main Drive | 500GBx2 Western Digital RE3 SATA2 Scratch Drives in RAID0 | Western Digital RE3 1TB SATA2 Media Drive | External 2TB Western Digital MyBook Backup Drive | Adaptec eSATA 3.0gbps PCI-E interface | Sandisk External 12-in-1 Flash Card Reader | LG GGC-H20L HD DVD/BD reader, DVD writer | LG GGW-H20L HD DVD/BD reader, DVD/BD writer | Microsoft E4000 Ergonomic Keyboard | Logitech Trackman Wheel | Antec P182 ATX Case | Thermaltake ToughPower XT 850w modular PSU | KRK RP-8 Rokit Studio Monitors | Windows Vista Ultimate x64
Ruined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-05, 01:23 PM   #2
|MaguS|
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: XBOX360 CPU more powerful for physics, AI than PS3 Cell

Wow that was to dumbest article I have read... The PS3 has a main cache of 512K but every SPE which can be used ANYWAY will have its own 256K (SPEs don't have to be used for Graphics Code, its beens stated that they can be used to multitask other parts such as AI and Physics). Its funny that the article didn't point out how severly limited the 360 is in bandwidth ingeneral since the CPU and GPU must share the Ram that means AI, Physics and Graphics all have to share ONE pipe, The EDRAM is on its own pipe to aid in AA and HD but it CANT be used any other way since its such a small amount.

Hell according to this article just because you have more cache cou automatically get better performance... Wonder why the FX55 still beats the P4EE 2MB...

BTW, SPEs specialize in Math Calculations.

You must really hate Sony/PS3, Most of your Posts are something anti-Sony/PS3.

Become knowledged and read this nice article on an indepth look into the Cell CPU.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=2379
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-05, 01:36 PM   #3
Ruined
Registered User
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,447
Default Re: XBOX360 CPU more powerful for physics, AI than PS3 Cell

Quote:
Originally Posted by |MaguS|
Wow that was to dumbest article I have read... The PS3 has a main cache of 512K but every SPE which can be used ANYWAY will have its own 256K (SPEs don't have to be used for Graphics Code, its beens stated that they can be used to multitask other parts such as AI and Physics). Its funny that the article didn't point out how severly limited the 360 is in bandwidth ingeneral since the CPU and GPU must share the Ram that means AI, Physics and Graphics all have to share ONE pipe, The EDRAM is on its own pipe to aid in AA and HD but it CANT be used any other way since its such a small amount.

Hell according to this article just because you have more cache cou automatically get better performance... Wonder why the FX55 still beats the P4EE 2MB...

BTW, SPEs specialize in Math Calculations.
ArsTechnica is one of the most respected tech sites on the net. I'm not about to disregard their article and analysis because someone who is clearly a Sony fan doesn't like their results. They also released a 2-part analysis of the Cell processor prior to this 2-part analysis of the XBOX360 CPU. They don't say that the PS3 will not be able to do physics/AI, they just say that it will be worse than XBOX360 at it.

Quote:
You must really hate Sony/PS3, Most of your Posts are something anti-Sony/PS3.
No, I will probably buy a PS3 (in addition to XBOX360) as I have a PS2 and 70+ games for it. The only thing I hate about Sony is how they overhype the specs and graphics on their consoles.

Quote:
Become knowledged
__________________
We're all in it together.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 2.66GHz CPU | Intel G965WH mobo | 8GB (4x2GB) DDR2-667mhz CAS5 RAM (1066MHz FSB) | BFG GeForce 285 GTX OC 1GB | Dell E228WFP 22" DVI-HDCP LCD Monitor | 1TB Western Digital RE3 SATA2 Main Drive | 500GBx2 Western Digital RE3 SATA2 Scratch Drives in RAID0 | Western Digital RE3 1TB SATA2 Media Drive | External 2TB Western Digital MyBook Backup Drive | Adaptec eSATA 3.0gbps PCI-E interface | Sandisk External 12-in-1 Flash Card Reader | LG GGC-H20L HD DVD/BD reader, DVD writer | LG GGW-H20L HD DVD/BD reader, DVD/BD writer | Microsoft E4000 Ergonomic Keyboard | Logitech Trackman Wheel | Antec P182 ATX Case | Thermaltake ToughPower XT 850w modular PSU | KRK RP-8 Rokit Studio Monitors | Windows Vista Ultimate x64
Ruined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-05, 01:37 PM   #4
Vagrant Zero
I'm a Back Door Man
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,750
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant Zero
Default Re: XBOX360 CPU more powerful for physics, AI than PS3 Cell

More cache better performence? Now that asshated thread I stumbled upon on the IGN boards where people were going ape**** over the 360s cache makes sense. But seriously, cache? Guess we were wrong, the prescott really is much better than the Northwood. 4 times better in fact.
__________________
o <---- Dev
|\_o <---- Paladin
// \
Vagrant Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-05, 01:46 PM   #5
Edge
3d animator for hire!
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: XBOX360 CPU more powerful for physics, AI than PS3 Cell

Quote:
Originally Posted by |MaguS|
Its funny that the article didn't point out how severly limited the 360 is in bandwidth ingeneral since the CPU and GPU must share the Ram that means AI, Physics and Graphics all have to share ONE pipe, The EDRAM is on its own pipe to aid in AA and HD but it CANT be used any other way since its such a small amount.
It doesn't matter how much of it there is, the important thing is that the bandwidth-intense accessing of the framebuffer won't cut down on the main system bandwidth. They could have increased the amount of EDRAM, but it wouldn't have been very beneficial since what it's used for doesn't require any more space. It does exactly what it was designed to: it greatly reduces the overall performance hit of having a large framebuffer. But regardless of that, AI and physics code doesn't depend very much on bandwidth, so bringing memory bandwidth into a debate about those functions is rather pointless (if bandwidth really does make a difference, wouldn't the extra cache increase the performance of those operations as well?).


Quote:
Originally Posted by |MaguS|
You must really hate Sony/PS3, Most of your Posts are something anti-Sony/PS3.
Err, going by that reasoning, you must really love Sony/PS3 since most of your posts talk about how great they are/pro-Sony. If anything, I'd say the two of you balance eachother out nicely
Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-05, 01:48 PM   #6
Vagrant Zero
I'm a Back Door Man
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,750
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant Zero
Default Re: XBOX360 CPU more powerful for physics, AI than PS3 Cell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined
No, I will probably buy a PS3 (in addition to XBOX360) as I have a PS2 and 70+ games for it. The only thing I hate about Sony is how they overhype the specs and graphics on their consoles.
I call bullcrap. I remember the big stink you put up about SM3 and how it was wonderous and how SM2.0bers would be left in the dust. I remember how you desperately tried to disprove the SM1 to SM3 comparisions and when that failed tried to save face. I remember how you claimed that FC was just lightyears ahead of all other games thanks to its beta HDR. You sir, eat up overhype from Nvidia like oxygen, so don't you dare claim you hate that which gives you a purpose to exist.
__________________
o <---- Dev
|\_o <---- Paladin
// \
Vagrant Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-05, 02:04 PM   #7
Ruined
Registered User
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,447
Default Re: XBOX360 CPU more powerful for physics, AI than PS3 Cell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Zero
I call bullcrap. I remember the big stink you put up about SM3 and how it was wonderous and how SM2.0bers would be left in the dust. I remember how you desperately tried to disprove the SM1 to SM3 comparisions and when that failed tried to save face. I remember how you claimed that FC was just lightyears ahead of all other games thanks to its beta HDR. You sir, eat up overhype from Nvidia like oxygen, so don't you dare claim you hate that which gives you a purpose to exist.
XBOX360 uses ATI.... PS3 uses Nvidia!

That should prove right there I am not "brand loyal."

And guess what, other games have superior lighting with NV cards too now - Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and the upcoming HL2 Lost Coast addon will use FP16 HDR. AoE3 will also use SM3 for geometry instancing which should give a big boost since it is an RTS. So yes, SM3 and FP16 HDR is slowly but surely resulting in better looking or faster games.

The main reason I am more excited about XBOX360 is because lots more original games have been announced for it than PS3, and it seems to be very well designed with Live integrated and not just another game console. Plus the XBOX360's controller looks far, far better than PS3's.
__________________
We're all in it together.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 2.66GHz CPU | Intel G965WH mobo | 8GB (4x2GB) DDR2-667mhz CAS5 RAM (1066MHz FSB) | BFG GeForce 285 GTX OC 1GB | Dell E228WFP 22" DVI-HDCP LCD Monitor | 1TB Western Digital RE3 SATA2 Main Drive | 500GBx2 Western Digital RE3 SATA2 Scratch Drives in RAID0 | Western Digital RE3 1TB SATA2 Media Drive | External 2TB Western Digital MyBook Backup Drive | Adaptec eSATA 3.0gbps PCI-E interface | Sandisk External 12-in-1 Flash Card Reader | LG GGC-H20L HD DVD/BD reader, DVD writer | LG GGW-H20L HD DVD/BD reader, DVD/BD writer | Microsoft E4000 Ergonomic Keyboard | Logitech Trackman Wheel | Antec P182 ATX Case | Thermaltake ToughPower XT 850w modular PSU | KRK RP-8 Rokit Studio Monitors | Windows Vista Ultimate x64
Ruined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-05, 02:45 PM   #8
evilchris
 
evilchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 4,411
Default Re: XBOX360 CPU more powerful for physics, AI than PS3 Cell

Riptide, you can't win with the raving PS3 baboon squad. The Xbox is a coleco vision in their eyes, the PS3 will create phenomena inside the computAR machine and age SD content into HD!!
__________________
[CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[/CENTER][B][CENTER]--Communist Party of America--[/CENTER][/B]
evilchris is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 06-02-05, 02:46 PM   #9
msxyz
Hybrid Microprocessor
 
msxyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Milan (Italy)
Posts: 2,050
Default Re: XBOX360 CPU more powerful for physics, AI than PS3 Cell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Zero
Guess we were wrong, the prescott really is much better than the Northwood. 4 times better in fact.
Except that Prescott limiting factor is the higher latecy of the cache coupled with a deeper pipeline architecture.

The article conclusions have a rather solid base and I mostly agree with them. Much will depend on the programmers ability to exploit parallelism (multithread or, in case of Cell, multiple programmable vector units)
__________________
Powered by:
Pentium Dual E2180 (2GHz, 200MHz FSB)
Abit L95C (The one and only mATX with dual PCIe slots!) + 2x1 Geil Black Dragon PC6400
XFX 9600GSO 384MB
Little freak wonder

Last edited by msxyz; 06-02-05 at 02:58 PM.
msxyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-05, 06:25 PM   #10
Subtestube
Anisymbolic
 
Subtestube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,365
Default Re: XBOX360 CPU more powerful for physics, AI than PS3 Cell

I'd just like to say that I agree with msxyz's point, though I admit to not having read the article. Based on what I know about the cell and the tri-core monster in the XBOX 360, the big place in which the cell is likely to come out on top is in terms of the programmable vector units. My expectation is that this should result in substantial performance gains in areas where first class vectors are a large benefit - such as physics. I can't think how it would substantially help multi-threaded AI, and would expect the XBOX 360 to excel there. Again, a lot will depend on how easy these features are to implement and exploit.
__________________
Dr Possible: Core 2 Duo E6400 on Gigabyte GA-965P-DS4. Galaxy GeForce 7600GT. 2GB Corsair XMS 2 DDR2-6400 RAM (CL5). ATi Theatre 550 Pro. Windows XP MCE. All stored in Piano black Antec Sonata II, with a broken door.

Mobile: ASUS M2400N, Pentium M 1.5 GHz. 512 MB DDR RAM. Intel EXTREME graphics. Windows XP SP 2 / Ubuntu 5.10.

Ridiculous DOES not have an 'e' in it. It comes from "ridicule" and has less than nothing to do with the colour red.
Subtestube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-05, 12:05 AM   #11
Vagrant Zero
I'm a Back Door Man
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,750
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant Zero
Default Re: XBOX360 CPU more powerful for physics, AI than PS3 Cell

Quote:
Originally Posted by steeda
Riptide, you can't win with the raving PS3 baboon squad. The Xbox is a coleco vision in their eyes, the PS3 will create phenomena inside the computAR machine and age SD content into HD!!
That and it'll actually have RPGs. Not that I expect you to understand, you just jumped the PC ship [which in itself doesn't file under my smart move category], not really a console gamer in the first place.

P.S. Riptide hasn't posted in this thread, put the pipe down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined
XBOX360 uses ATI.... PS3 uses Nvidia!
That should prove right there I am not "brand loyal."
Who said anything about brand loyalty? I simply stated that you claiming to hate hype of any kind is bullcrap since you eat up Nvidias.
__________________
o <---- Dev
|\_o <---- Paladin
// \
Vagrant Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-05, 12:38 AM   #12
evilchris
 
evilchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 4,411
Default Re: XBOX360 CPU more powerful for physics, AI than PS3 Cell

I didn't just jump from the PC ship. Quit thinking you know anything about me. I've gamed primarily on my Xbox since launch. Since 2001, I have purchased 57 Xbox games. In the same period of time I have purchased 3 PC games. No, I didn't pirate any either.
__________________
[CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[/CENTER][B][CENTER]--Communist Party of America--[/CENTER][/B]
evilchris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maintain Your Privacy by Manually Accepting and Rejecting "Cookies" (nV News) MikeC Open Forum 2 02-02-13 07:15 PM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2014, nV News.