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Old 06-18-05, 03:47 PM   #13
davemoore
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Default Re: Reduced Blanking on DVI-D

Concerning the pixel clock limit of 150 MHz, I have a very strong hunch that the last version (7174) of the driver will not give you this problem. Try it and see.
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Old 06-18-05, 04:05 PM   #14
kulick
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Default Re: Reduced Blanking on DVI-D

Quote:
Originally Posted by davemoore
Concerning the pixel clock limit of 150 MHz, I have a very strong hunch that the last version (7174) of the driver will not give you this problem. Try it and see.
Dave,

I'm starting to think that you are right. I just read some interesting posts in another thread that confirm this. If you are interested, look here. I'll definitely try it...right after I get some lunch.

The next question, of course, will be...will all future drivers stop me from using this setup? Here's another one: got any guess which Windows drivers will work? I want to run the same setup there too and I have a guess that the problems that I am seeing are similar...

Thanks a bunch for the response and the ideas!

-t
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Old 06-18-05, 11:08 PM   #15
kulick
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Talking Re: Reduced Blanking on DVI-D

davemoore, you rock!

Your hunch is spot on. I switched to build 7174 and got things to work. Note: they did not work initially...the "ExactModeTimingsDVI" setting was required. Otherwise the monitor would not sync. The old driver does not seem to report any of the reduced pixel clock messages that I was getting from build 7664.

I've attached my current config file and log in case it is helpful to anyone. Just to be clear...I now have my GeForce FX5700 Ultra working with a Samsung SyncMaster 243T (a 24" LCD) at 1920x1200 over Single Link DVI with the nVidia closed-source driver version 7174. Additionally, I have seen this setup work with the Xorg open-source 'nv' driver under FC3 (test1) and now under FC4. (I hope this helps those of you doing google searches... )

Now to get things going like this under Windows...wish me luck!
Attached Files
File Type: txt xorg.conf.txt (6.9 KB, 2130 views)
File Type: txt Xorg.0.log.txt (32.4 KB, 426 views)
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Old 06-19-05, 08:01 AM   #16
SaTaN0rX
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Default Re: Reduced Blanking on DVI-D

Well, i read this article on tom's hardware some time ago:

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041129/

it seems that nvidias built-in TDMS transmitters are inferior to ATi's
builtin transmitters or external silicon image transmitters

that may be the reason for the odd 150 MHz limit.

Last edited by SaTaN0rX; 06-19-05 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 06-19-05, 05:04 PM   #17
kulick
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Red face Re: Reduced Blanking on DVI-D

SaTaN0rX,

I think that you are right. I think that the newer drivers are enforcing a limit that my particular card seems able to exceed. I wanted to also thank you for the "ExactModeTimingsDVI" suggestion. That was an important part of getting things to work. Thanks!

I have still not been able to get things working properly under windows. I've tried powerstrip and the advanced timing controls under the nVidia 71.89 driver. When I enter the same timings that I used in Xorg under Linux, my monitor display is, well, "messed up". It looks like each scanline is about 75 or so pixels short so the image wraps strangely across the monitor about 50 times from top to bottom. The strange thing is that the exact same numbers work when entered into Xorg (with "ExactModeTimingsDVI"). Obviously the drivers are doing something with those numbers behind the scenes...

-t
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Old 06-21-05, 02:52 AM   #18
kulick
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Default Re: Reduced Blanking on DVI-D

I have my secret sources inside nVidia looking into what's up with the modeline numbers working for me in Xorg under Linux, but not with the drivers under Windows. I really think that it has something to do with that "ExactModeTimingsDVI" setting. Maybe my source can find a similar flag in the Windows driver. I'll let you guys know if I find out anything good...

-t
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Old 06-23-05, 02:41 AM   #19
haynold
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Default Re: Reduced Blanking on DVI-D

Hi:

Thank you all for your help. With the "ExactModeTimingsDVI" setting and the proprietary driver it works, but only kind of. When the image is still, all works fine. But when there is motion on the screen (e.g. the screensaver, a flick, or stupid animated banner ads) the areas in question start to flicker ("snow" in either red, green, or blue) like crazy.

Since this doesn't happen with still images, I'd assume the cable is innocent, and since the monitor does it just fine with analog input, the display seems to be ok, too. Which leaves the card as the culprit. I tried reduced clock rates, which work, but the problem gets worse.

<BITTER_RANT>
This experience, in all honesty makes me think about dumping my few nVidia shares and shorting some, too. The outrageously expensive (albeit older) Quadro card that came with my workstation would take special DVI adapters but support DVI only at a ridiculously low resolution which few Quadro users would actually want to use. The new card I got can be tricked into driving a pretty standard upscale DVI screen, but only when there is no motion in the image and only using an old version of the driver and an exotic driver option. And I'm being told by people who definitely know what they're doing that it doesn't work under Windows either. This in the year 2005. Does anyone know a graphics card, reasonably priced if possible, that can actually do 1920x1200/reduced blanking over DVI under Xorg without trouble?
</BITTER_RANT>

As you see, short of jumping the nVidia ship I'm out of ideas, but of course I'd still appreciate any ideas you guys might have.
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Old 06-23-05, 03:13 AM   #20
kulick
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Default Re: Reduced Blanking on DVI-D

Quote:
Originally Posted by haynold
Hi:
I only wish I could help more! I know how annoy these kinds of problems can be. Unfortunately, I think the feeling is all too common...

Quote:
Originally Posted by haynold
Thank you all for your help. With the "ExactModeTimingsDVI" setting and the proprietary driver it works, but only kind of. When the image is still, all works fine. But when there is motion on the screen (e.g. the screensaver, a flick, or stupid animated banner ads) the areas in question start to flicker ("snow" in either red, green, or blue) like crazy.
I'm definately guessing some here, but that sounds to me like the kind of thing that you would see if you are driving the card too close to the limit or if the timing is close to what the monitor supports, but not close enough. I don't really have any good suggestions tho. Sorry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by haynold
<BITTER_RANT>
This experience, in all honesty makes me think about dumping my few nVidia shares and shorting some, too. The outrageously expensive (albeit older) Quadro card that came with my workstation would take special DVI adapters but support DVI only at a ridiculously low resolution which few Quadro users would actually want to use. The new card I got can be tricked into driving a pretty standard upscale DVI screen, but only when there is no motion in the image and only using an old version of the driver and an exotic driver option. And I'm being told by people who definitely know what they're doing that it doesn't work under Windows either. This in the year 2005. Does anyone know a graphics card, reasonably priced if possible, that can actually do 1920x1200/reduced blanking over DVI under Xorg without trouble?
</BITTER_RANT>
It really is sad that it doesn't just work. I'm sure the non-early adopters will have it easier in a few years. In the meantime, it would be nice if the vendors (on both ends, monitor/LCD and graphics card) would more prominently publish their compatibility. I'm a big fan of nVidia due to their Linux driver support, but I have seen a lot of people posting that these things "just work" with ATI. I can't say myself...I've always done the nVidia thing.

-t
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Old 06-24-05, 12:36 AM   #21
haynold
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Default Re: Reduced Blanking on DVI-D

I didn't quantify it, but I have a subjective feeling that rendering is much slower in digital mode, too. That and the fact that there are problems only when the screen is redrawn would suggest that the card is having some problems synchronizing read and write access to the video memory. If that is true, then the source of the problem would seem to be either with the hardware or with the proprietary and closed-source driver, which is to say only nVidia can fix it.

I think I'll try an ATI and let you guys know how it went. If it works, nVidia has lost a customer.
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Old 06-24-05, 02:45 AM   #22
kulick
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Default Re: Reduced Blanking on DVI-D

Just as an FYI...I read in the nVidia driver release notes that performance may be slower in "clone" mode. That is the mode where you output to both the analog (VGA) and the digital (DVI) connectors. I guess this makes sense since you would be reading the memory twice as much.

-t
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Old 06-24-05, 06:25 PM   #23
aritger
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Default Re: Reduced Blanking on DVI-D

haynold, kulick, and others:

We at NVIDIA are paying attention to this problem, and hope to
improve the situation in the NVIDIA Linux driver in a future
driver release.

To clarify a few points:

Drivers prior to 7664 had a bug in how they were computing the
maximum TMDS pixel clock. In the 7664 and 7667 drivers, the maximum
pixel clock is now correctly computed, but unforunately this causes
some modes to be invalidated that apparently worked perfectly
fine previously.

The cutoff between single link and dual link TMDS is 165 MHz.
Some NVIDIA graphics boards have TMDS controllers than can only go
up to frequencies less than this. The X log will report this maximum pixel
clock. I expect this information is also available from the graphics board
manufacturer.

I agree that this is unfortunate, and NVIDIA will explore solutions
such that the correct maximum pixel clock can be respected, yet
the resolutions that previously worked continue to work.

The easiest solution I can recommend today is to stick with 7174.
If you want to use a more recent driver, then in most cases you
can work around the problem by tweaking your modelines as described
in this thread and elsewhere.

In many cases, generating a verbose X log `startx -- -logverbose 5`,
and reading the detailed timing information in the EDID information
in the log will give you the modetimings to use in your modeline.

We are working hard to improve the ease of display configurability
of the NVIDIA driver, and hope to deliver this in a future driver
release.

Thanks.
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Old 06-24-05, 06:35 PM   #24
kulick
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Default Re: Reduced Blanking on DVI-D

Andy,

Thanks for the clear and thorough response. As an employee of a company that sells consumer products, I know how difficult it can be to get the signoff to send information outside the company. Yet these messages can (and do) instill patience and confidence in your customers. I know some are frustrated, but I still love my nVidia card.

It's nice to know that you guys are on top of this one. It sure would be great to have a TMDS limit override flag available someday in future drivers. I don't want to miss out on all the other great driver improvements that are sure to come.

Thanks for the message.

-t

[ In the interest of full disclosure, so no one thinks that I'm some kind of NV shill, back in my contracting days, I did a contract for nVidia. I buy their cards today for the linux drivers though... ]
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