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Old 12-26-02, 06:52 AM   #25
StealthHawk
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fusion
Like I KEEP saying Something HAS to give.
he said might not "will" run at a slower internal speed.

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Xbox does NOT compare to modern PCs, end of story.
no, it doesn't compare to today's high end PCs.

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And all this fixed platform rubbish just doesn't hold water on today's games.
1-2+ years ago, perhaps.
rubbish. coding for one fixed platform will always yield superior performance, period.

Quote:
Unreal Championship, is one such example. And really shows that Xbox just isn't as powerful as some seem to think.

UT2003 rarely goes below 60fps at 120x960x32 on even a modest PC today.
please send me one of these modest computers, because i don't get 60+ fps in ut2k3 at 1280 with many players on screen at all. and that is with no FSAA and no AF.

i'm not sure what you're considering "modern." last time i checked the majority of people still had DX7 class cards.


so what happened to your insistence that Doom 3 would support 128bit color? you must hve heard it somewhere, right?
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Old 12-26-02, 09:56 AM   #26
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Modest computer today is a high-end TBird with a GF3. And you know what? It runs UT2k3 like crap online with a lot of players on the screen. And it runs even worse with bots.

"Well how do you know that?"

BECAUSE I HAVE ONE!

As for the core tick... okay, not really going to make a difference because TVs only display 30FPS anyway.

And one more thing...

Xbox: $200
Computer where you can run Doom3 with lots of aniso and AA: $no, you can't buy them yet
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Old 12-26-02, 12:06 PM   #27
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Welcome to the fanatical Xbox zealot forum

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so what happened to your insistence that Doom 3 would support 128bit color? you must hve heard it somewhere, right?
I heard the man himself mention it in his speech.
You still have NO proof that he ain't going to include it. And considering JC has been on and on about higher precision colour for 47 years now, I would expect him to use it now he has the option.

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superior performance
I don't think so.

Quote:
no, it doesn't compare to today's high end PCs.
It doesn't even compare to medium end PCs, period.
You forget, Xbox is running at 640x480. I bet 99% of all medium end PC owners are running at 800x600 MINIMUM.
How about we level the playing field and run Xbox at higher resolutions ? Then see just how it struggles.

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please send me one of these modest computers, because i don't get 60+ fps in ut2k3 at 1280 with many players on screen at all. and that is with no FSAA and no AF.
Then you should seriously look at your PC, then.
A friends PC is what I'd call modest.
Athlon Thunderbird 1.4, 512Mb PC133, 40Gb HD, GF3 ti500, Abit KT7a.
Runs UT2003 at 1280x960x32, all settings to Normal, and runs a good 60fps+ easily.


Quote:
Computer where you can run Doom3 with lots of aniso and AA: $no, you can't buy them yet
Where can you find an Xbox capable of running Doom3 with aniso and AA ?? You can't/Won't ever, period.

We'll see.
The Xbox might even be dead by the time JC decides to start D3.
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Old 12-26-02, 05:13 PM   #28
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please send me one of these modest computers, because i don't get 60+ fps in ut2k3 at 1280 with many players on screen at all. and that is with no FSAA and no AF.
I get with my pc at 1600 res 60+ fps, and by this time,I think that my pc ismodest.

Quote:
As for the core tick... okay, not really going to make a difference because TVs only display 30FPS anyway.
But i think thats true if you sincronize your eyes with the tv's refresh rate (30 fps) You need at least 60 fps to run a game smoth always.

And a big problem for the engine is the opengl port to direct x. I dont think that carmack will work on that.
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Old 12-26-02, 08:08 PM   #29
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Originally posted by lord kelvinn
I get with my pc at 1600 res 60+ fps, and by this time,I think that my pc ismodest.
please send me your gf4
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Old 12-26-02, 08:21 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fusion
I heard the man himself mention it in his speech.
You still have NO proof that he ain't going to include it. And considering JC has been on and on about higher precision colour for 47 years now, I would expect him to use it now he has the option.
i have more proof saying that he won't include than you do saying he will. i love how you ask for links and when i give you them you say i provide "no" proof, but we are to trust your word when you have nothing backing it up.

Quote:
It doesn't even compare to medium end PCs, period.
we aren't comparing Xbox to PCs. we're comparing fix platform programming to non fixed platform programming. do you honestly believe that a P3 700MHz with 64MB RAM and a gf4 will play Doom 3 better than Xbox, or even close to what Xbox will accomplish? if you answer no then obviously optimizations for fixed platforms are real and make a difference. and yes, i realize that the system i listed is more powerful than Xbox.

Quote:
You forget, Xbox is running at 640x480. I bet 99% of all medium end PC owners are running at 800x600 MINIMUM.
How about we level the playing field and run Xbox at higher resolutions ? Then see just how it struggles.
why? like i already said, tvs don't NEED more resolution, you lose most of what you gain. it would be silly to do that.

are you arguing that Doom 3 cannot be rendered at full detail on Xbox, or that Doom 3 cannot be rendered at a rate equal to a high end pc? at first it seemed like you were going for the former, but now it seems like the latter.

Quote:
Then you should seriously look at your PC, then.
A friends PC is what I'd call modest.
Athlon Thunderbird 1.4, 512Mb PC133, 40Gb HD, GF3 ti500, Abit KT7a.
Runs UT2003 at 1280x960x32, all settings to Normal, and runs a good 60fps+ easily.
Unreal Championship has the same detail level as ut2003 on Normal?


edit: since you seem to like DaveW so much, i believe he summed it up nicely:
Quote:
When Carmack says "will match the visual feats of the PC version" all he means is that it will have the same graphical effects: stencil shadows, specularity etc. The sentence doesn't imply anything about framerate. You can say that the Gameboy Advance version of Doom (1) "matches the visual feats of the PC version".
obviously now Doom 3 on Xbox will have plyable framerates, it won't be a slideshow while "matching the visual feats of the PC version." and this is what Carmack said. it will match the visuals. i don't understand why you can't just accept it. it's not like the quote was made up.
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Old 12-27-02, 10:09 AM   #31
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1stly. I think what carmack means, is that none of the features will be dropped in the port to xbox.

It wont have the texture resolution, screen resolution, frame-rates, AA or aniso that hi-end pc's will be doing. But the underlying architectural features (per pixel lighting, volumentic shadows ) will still be there.

Personally 30fps on a console sucks. We're aiming for 60fps constant on our gamecube title.
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Old 12-27-02, 10:53 AM   #32
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It wont have the texture resolution, screen resolution, frame-rates, AA or aniso that hi-end pc's will be doing. But the underlying architectural features (per pixel lighting, volumentic shadows ) will still be there.
Thats a good description of what I've been trying to put across.

I appologise if my descriptions aren't quite how I intended them to be.
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Old 12-27-02, 01:12 PM   #33
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UM I have to say that there is NOT a console game that looks better than a pc game. One of my gaming buddies has the xbox and a pc. at least 2 sundays out of a month we lan at his house. Now we do play the xbox quite it bit. Its fun like an arcade game if fun for about 20 minutes then it gets really old.

But getting back to my point there is not ONE console game that looks as good a a pc game. I have seen them alll too Dead to rights, Mechassault, Splintercell, Halo and many more NONE of them look as good as pc games. This is probably due to the fact that they are running their games without AA anso and at 640X480 res. and struggling to do it at that. If they tried to compete with pcs toe to toe (on a HDTV or course) at say 1024X768. The framerate would be in the single digits you know with me laughing in the backround.


PS. Ever since the days of the v1 and quake ppl (smart ones) have seen consoles for what they are a LESSOR gaming experiance.
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Old 12-27-02, 01:20 PM   #34
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Also I knew it was coming but it makes me sick when I hear console games talk about mechassault and how its the first real leap foward it multiplayer gaming ever. I like stfu do you even know what your talking about console kidde? PC gaming paved the way for online gaming. God I loved the old days when I was busy sniping some fag playing TF. While some idiot was waiting for that loading time to be finished on his ps1.

Consoles are idiot entertainment. They are for people too stupid to use pcs. The only people I respect that use them are people who use a PC as their primary gaming system.
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Old 12-27-02, 04:58 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by t6_shadow
Consoles are idiot entertainment. They are for people too stupid to use pcs. The only people I respect that use them are people who use a PC as their primary gaming system.
not everybody has money. hence, consoles.
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Old 12-27-02, 06:04 PM   #36
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"not everybody has money. hence, consoles"

Half the kids playing consoles walk around in 80 dollar jeans so don't talk about money. Besides. When you buy console you get a gaming system. When you buy a computer you get a gaming system plus about 342389054792398 tools too.
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