Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

[Rakeesh]

Originally Posted by killahsin

You can thank vivendi for all of that

There is nothing anywhere that would stop valve from giving DoD:S to the CE users for free via steam. So no, you can't use vivendi as your scapegoat here. Valve are just being greedy dicks here, and it isn't the first time either. Just look at what happened to the cybercafes who suddenly had their paid for licenses to games that they already owned get revoked, and now they have to pay recurring fees to use those games. Ironically, vivendi was trying to save them money in that case.

[Holy Smoke]

Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK

There is nothing anywhere that would stop valve from giving DoD:S to the CE users for free via steam.

Stockholders.

DoD:S is not a free mod being made in people's spare time, but an all out paid for project. Expecting it for free when you have people expecting a return on their investment is very unrealistic, and unfair towards them as well.

If Valve got less for Vivendi-published copies of HL2 than they did for their own packages, it is quite simply a case of Valve not being paid for DoD:S when it comes to Vivendi-published copies. If Valve gets 50$ of royalties out of the 60$ Vivendi copies, then that's 10$ less than they got out of their own 60$ silver packages. And since the difference between the bronze and the silver packages is 10$ (the price difference covering DoD:S), it stands to reason that those who bought Vivendi copies simply haven't paid for DoD:S.

And that's assuming that Valve did get 50$ royalties... a very conservative number if you ask me.

[ST:DS9]

Originally Posted by Holy Smoke

Stockholders.

DoD:S is not a free mod being made in people's spare time, but an all out paid for project. Expecting it for free when you have people expecting a return on their investment is very unrealistic, and unfair towards them as well.

If Valve got less for Vivendi-published copies of HL2 than they did for their own packages, it is quite simply a case of Valve not being paid for DoD:S when it comes to Vivendi-published copies. If Valve gets 50$ of royalties out of the 60$ Vivendi copies, then that's 10$ less than they got out of their own 60$ silver packages. And since the difference between the bronze and the silver packages is 10$ (the price difference covering DoD:S), it stands to reason that those who bought Vivendi copies simply haven't paid for DoD:S.

And that's assuming that Valve did get 50$ royalties... a very conservative number if you ask me.

Exactly, also DOD:S is not free for the Silver and Gold Packages. I paid for DOD:S as part of my package. If they gave it free to the retail owners, then Valve would be guilty of false advertising and Bait & Switch. DOD:S is not a free mod, never will be. Activision is the holder of distibuting DOD, and therefore Vivendi would have no right to distribute DOD:S for the retail package. Valve could get sued by Activison for giving DOD:S to retail owners for free. The only reason that DOD for HL1 was still free was because it was free to begin with, even though Activision was publishing it sometime later.

If they give you guys DOD:S for free, then I either want part of my money back, or I want something else of equivalent free, because I paid for DOD:S, the retail people did not pay for it. The retail people payed for what is stated on the package, profit for the store, profit for the middleman, profit for the publisher, the box, printed instructions, and the CDs/DVD.

I think the main problem is that people seem to think that DOD:S is just a mod, and not an actual product to be sold, just because DOD on HL1 was free. People should not assume that things will always stay the same. What was true for HL1, does not mean it would be true for HL2.

[Rakeesh]

Originally Posted by Holy Smoke

Stockholders.

That in itself is a perfectly valid and logical argument. But, IMHO it is still being greedy on valves part, just like what they did with the cybercafe owners. Again let me state, I am not a CE owner, however:

Originally Posted by superklye

But how do you upgrade from an $80 package to a $60 package? Do I get the games I should've gotten originally AND my $20 back?

I would be interested in seeing how valve would respond to that question.

Originally Posted by ST:DS9

If they gave it free to the retail owners, then Valve would be guilty of false advertising and Bait & Switch. DOD:S is not a free mod, never will be.

Now that doesn't make any legal sense whatsoever. Congratulations, you have made the dumbest statement I have ever seen or heard anybody make.

Originally Posted by ST:DS9

If they give you guys DOD:S for free, then I either want part of my money back, or I want something else of equivalent free, because I paid for DOD:S, the retail people did not pay for it.

Wait a minute...now THIS is the dumbest statement I have ever seen or heard anybody make. Are you stuck on stupid son? What the f*ck broke in your head? Maybe you should try banging it against a wall a few times, see if that'll knock something loose.

According to your logic, it would also be a requirement that when products go down in cost over time, or if the manufacturer charges different prices in different regions (which is very common BTW) the manufacturer is guilty of a bait and switch, and is thus required to refund the price difference that people paid when they first bought the product. Doesn't work that way. Try what I mentioned above and maybe you'll figure it out.

[Mr. Hunt]

Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK

That in itself is a perfectly valid and logical argument. But, IMHO it is still being greedy on valves part, just like what they did with the cybercafe owners. Again let me state, I am not a CE owner, however:



I would be interested in seeing how valve would respond to that question.



Now that doesn't make any legal sense whatsoever. Congratulations, you have made the dumbest statement I have ever seen or heard anybody make.



Wait a minute...now THIS is the dumbest statement I have ever seen or heard anybody make. Are you stuck on stupid son? What the f*ck broke in your head? Maybe you should try banging it against a wall a few times, see if that'll knock something loose.

According to your logic, it would also be a requirement that when products go down in cost over time, or if the manufacturer charges different prices in different regions (which is very common BTW) the manufacturer is guilty of a bait and switch, and is thus required to refund the price difference that people paid when they first bought the product. Doesn't work that way. Try what I mentioned above and maybe you'll figure it out.

Greatest post ever.

[Edge]

Originally Posted by ST:DS9

If they give you guys DOD:S for free, then I either want part of my money back, or I want something else of equivalent free, because I paid for DOD:S, the retail people did not pay for it. The retail people payed for what is stated on the package, profit for the store, profit for the middleman, profit for the publisher, the box, printed instructions, and the CDs/DVD.

Well then, Valve owes me $69.98 for the money I spent on Opposing Force and Blue Shift when those games were given to all Half-life owners for free over Steam. Also, you must be pretty damn pissed that retail owners have access to HL2DM and Lost Coast when they aren't mentioned at all on the back of the retail box. And I sure as hell hope that quick-guide card that comes with the retail version isn't considered "printed instructions" nowadays.

[Holy Smoke]

STS9 has got a pretty good point though. Since the point of getting silver over bronze is to get DoD:S, there would definitely be a reaction if those extra 10$ people spent to get it were to become unnecessary. Sure, it would be an added bonus for those who spent less, but it would also be an added cost for those who spent more. And people generally don't like that.

[Rakeesh]

Originally Posted by Holy Smoke

STS9 has got a pretty good point though. Since the point of getting silver over bronze is to get DoD:S, there would definitely be a reaction if those extra 10$ people spent to get it were to become unnecessary. Sure, it would be an added bonus for those who spent less, but it would also be an added cost for those who spent more. And people generally don't like that.

Yes, but the CE users did spend more than the silver users did.

[ST:DS9]

Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK

That in itself is a perfectly valid and logical argument. But, IMHO it is still being greedy on valves part, just like what they did with the cybercafe owners. Again let me state, I am not a CE owner, however:



I would be interested in seeing how valve would respond to that question.



Now that doesn't make any legal sense whatsoever. Congratulations, you have made the dumbest statement I have ever seen or heard anybody make.



Wait a minute...now THIS is the dumbest statement I have ever seen or heard anybody make. Are you stuck on stupid son? What the f*ck broke in your head? Maybe you should try banging it against a wall a few times, see if that'll knock something loose.

According to your logic, it would also be a requirement that when products go down in cost over time, or if the manufacturer charges different prices in different regions (which is very common BTW) the manufacturer is guilty of a bait and switch, and is thus required to refund the price difference that people paid when they first bought the product. Doesn't work that way. Try what I mentioned above and maybe you'll figure it out.

I actually had a long post here, even with some legal links to prove my point, but then I realized that it would just fall on deaf ears since you already brought this debate down to a low point by personally attacking me. My cousin who is a lawyer (who helped me in finding those links) told me once that he knows he has won a debate with someone when the other person personally attacks him.

[Rakeesh]

Originally Posted by ST:DS9

I actually had a long post here, even with some legal links to prove my point, but then I realized that it would just fall on deaf ears since you already brought this debate down to a low point by personally attacking me. My cousin who is a lawyer (who helped me in finding those links) told me once that he knows he has won a debate with someone when the other person personally attacks him.

You previously established yourself as an idiot here. So make your case or shut up. I'd be more than happy to see your links.

[ST:DS9]

Originally Posted by Edge

Well then, Valve owes me $69.98 for the money I spent on Opposing Force and Blue Shift when those games were given to all Half-life owners for free over Steam. Also, you must be pretty damn pissed that retail owners have access to HL2DM and Lost Coast when they aren't mentioned at all on the back of the retail box. And I sure as hell hope that quick-guide card that comes with the retail version isn't considered "printed instructions" nowadays.

Read the news again about who gets Blue Shift, I paid for that to when I bought Silver package. The gold and silver package does say that I get Valves entire back catalog available on Steam. Since my transaction is not complete with Valve for my purchase, it only makes sense that I get Blue Shift also. The HL owners are the ones who bought the premier pak, which included Blueshift. So no, nobody got it for free, they paid for it with their packages.

Also, when I bought the silver package, HL2DM and Lost Coast were not on the list as being part of the package. So those 2 things are truly free to any owner of HL2. Nor did thier press release mention anything about them.

[ST:DS9]

Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK

You previously established yourself as an idiot here. So make your case or shut up. I'd be more than happy to see your links.

Nope, not worth my time to retype all that and find the links again. It will just fall on deaf ears. When people personally attack, they are no longer worth your time and effort.