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Old 09-08-05, 10:59 AM   #49
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Default Re: Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ST:DS9
Read the news again about who gets Blue Shift, I paid for that to when I bought Silver package. The gold and silver package does say that I get Valves entire back catalog available on Steam. Since my transaction is not complete with Valve for my purchase, it only makes sense that I get Blue Shift also. The HL owners are the ones who bought the premier pak, which included Blueshift. So no, nobody got it for free, they paid for it with their packages.
Guess what? Me, and a big number of people got blue shift just for owning HL1 and nothing else. Other people on the other hand actually paid for opposing force, and blue shift. I was never told that I would get blue shift even one time, yet I got it free anyways via steam.

And by the way, heres the definition of a bait and switch:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/baitads-gd.htm

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Originally Posted by ST:DS9
Nope, not worth my time to retype all that and find the links again. It will just fall on deaf ears. When people personally attack, they are no longer worth your time and effort.
LOL you never even wrote anything
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Old 09-08-05, 11:04 AM   #50
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Default Re: Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
Guess what? Me, and a big number of people got blue shift just for owning HL1 and nothing else. Other people on the other hand actually paid for opposing force, and blue shift. I was never told that I would get blue shift even one time, yet I got it free anyways via steam.

And by the way, heres the definition of a bait and switch:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/baitads-gd.htm



LOL you never even wrote anything
I deleted it before I submitted it.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:09 AM   #51
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Default Re: Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ST:DS9
I deleted it before I submitted it.
Uh huh...and you sit there go on about how I am not worth arguing with, then you keep insisting upon your lies. Just go away.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:17 AM   #52
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Default Re: Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
Guess what? Me, and a big number of people got blue shift just for owning HL1 and nothing else. Other people on the other hand actually paid for opposing force, and blue shift. I was never told that I would get blue shift even one time, yet I got it free anyways via steam.

And by the way, heres the definition of a bait and switch:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/baitads-gd.htm



LOL you never even wrote anything
"Bait advertising is an alluring but insincere offer to sell a product or service which the advertiser in truth does not intend or want to sell
" Thats say it all right there. They advertised it as a product of value in a package. If that product becomes free and hold no value when it comes available, they just switched me to a lower package at a higher value, since DOD:S would hold no value, even though the advertising shows that it had a value in the package.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:22 AM   #53
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Default Re: Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
Uh huh...and you sit there go on about how I am not worth arguing with, then you keep insisting upon your lies. Just go away.

I probably didn't explain it very well anyways, since my cousin only sent me the links and said a few words about it. My cousin is a corporate lawyer for the biggest Automobile saftey equipment (airbags, seatbelts, ect) in the world, and if he says that this would be considered bait and switch, then I will believe him over anybody on this forum.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:25 AM   #54
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Default Re: Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ST:DS9
They advertised it as a product of value in a package. If that product becomes free and hold no value when it comes available, they just switched me to a lower package at a higher value
Nope, you are completely wrong here. They kept you at the exact same package at a lower value. That is called depreciation. Why do you think many people don't like buying new cars instead of used cars?

Or better yet, what about when you buy a video card, then about two months later you see everybody selling that same card for about $50 less? In your logic, the video card manufacturer would be guilty of bait and switch.

But even that is assuming that I was talking about the bronze package, which I am not, I am talking about the CE package, whose owners paid more than the silver owners anyways.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:28 AM   #55
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Default Re: Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
There is nothing anywhere that would stop valve from giving DoD:S to the CE users for free via steam. So no, you can't use vivendi as your scapegoat here. Valve are just being greedy dicks here, and it isn't the first time either. Just look at what happened to the cybercafes who suddenly had their paid for licenses to games that they already owned get revoked, and now they have to pay recurring fees to use those games. Ironically, vivendi was trying to save them money in that case.
Umm, VU had no rights to sell liscenses to the Cyber Cafes, which is why Valve won the court case.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:32 AM   #56
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Default Re: Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
Yes, but the CE users did spend more than the silver users did.
Ya, and that's really the crux of the issue. Seeing as it went through Vivendi, it means that the 80$ the CE cost didn't all go to Valve, but a large portion of it to Vivendi. If Valve got (for example) 50$ in royalties for the standard 60$ Vivendi edition of HL2, there's a good chance they also got 50$ for the collectors edition. That would suggest that the whole "Collectors Edition" part of it is a Vivendi deal and not a Valve one.

It sounds to me like Valve simply licensed Vivendi to sell the bronze edition, while allowing Vivendi to market it however they saw fit, with whatever extras they wanted (T-shirt, booklet, etc.) for whatever price they wanted. I don't think Valve got any extra royalties if Vivendi were to sell more CE editions than regular ones. The extra cost associated with including a t-shirt and booklet fell on Vivendi, so naturally the extra profit of the CE also goes to Vivendi. As far as Valve is concerned, it's just another bronze edition.

As much as it sucks, the 30$ extra (price difference between the bronze edition and the CE) all went to Vivendi, not Valve.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:40 AM   #57
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Default Re: Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
Nope, you are completely wrong here. They kept you at the exact same package at a lower value. That is called depreciation. Why do you think many people don't like buying new cars instead of used cars?

Or better yet, what about when you buy a video card, then about two months later you see everybody selling that same card for about $50 less? In your logic, the video card manufacturer would be guilty of bait and switch.

But even that is assuming that I was talking about the bronze package, which I am not, I am talking about the CE package, whose owners paid more than the silver owners anyways.
My transaction isn't even complete yet, they have not delivered on everything that was promised. Heck my cousin said that Valve may already be guilty of bait and switch since they have not delivered on my full product in a reasonable time.

Also you cannot put the Retail and the Download in the same category. Valve does not make very much from the retail (I think they make like 8-10%(?) of the profit from the publisher). If they give a procuct away for free to the retail people, then that could be considered a loss. I mean they may have made like $8 for every CE sold. They do have responsiblilities to thier stalk holders. I'll say it again, DOD:S is not a free game, it is an actuall game that was made to be sold, not given away. They lose out on money if they give it away for free, and the Stock holders may have legal retributions if Valve was to give it way for free.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:42 AM   #58
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Default Re: Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ST:DS9
I probably didn't explain it very well anyways, since my cousin only sent me the links and said a few words about it. My cousin is a corporate lawyer for the biggest Automobile saftey equipment (airbags, seatbelts, ect) in the world, and if he says that this would be considered bait and switch, then I will believe him over anybody on this forum.
Either you mislead him, or he isn't a real lawyer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ST:DS9
Umm, VU had no rights to sell liscenses to the Cyber Cafes, which is why Valve won the court case.
Which makes no difference either way, only that it facilitated valve in doing what they did.

Imagine this. Say you bought a copy of nada 3, and the license grants you a lifetime copy of the game for using it however you please, provided you install it on only one computer. You enjoy the game for some time, and then suddenly when you go to log in to play multiplayer, you find your cdkey is suddenly invalid.

You go to nada 3's website, and they have an announcement of a dispute between themselves and their publisher. Turns out there was a legal technicality that they were able to use to render all licenses of nada 3 that were sold to their customers null and void. The website informs you that in spite of paying them for your legal copy, they have used the court system to make your copy illegal, and if you want it to be legal again, you have to pay them a monthly fee. And then on top of it all, they tell you that somehow this will be a good deal for you.

How would that make you feel given that you already paid once and effectively had a deal that you wouldn't have to pay again? Wouldn't that piss you off at all?

This is precisely what valve did to the cybercafe owners.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:45 AM   #59
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Default Re: Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
Either you mislead him, or he isn't a real lawyer.



Which makes no difference either way, only that it facilitated valve in doing what they did.

Imagine this. Say you bought a copy of nada 3, and the license grants you a lifetime copy of the game for using it however you please, provided you install it on only one computer. You enjoy the game for some time, and then suddenly when you go to log in to play multiplayer, you find your cdkey is suddenly invalid.

You go to nada 3's website, and they have an announcement of a dispute between themselves and their publisher. Turns out there was a legal technicality that they were able to use to render all licenses of nada 3 that were sold to their customers null and void. The website informs you that in spite of paying them for your legal copy, they have used the court system to make your copy illegal, and if you want it to be legal again, you have to pay them a monthly fee. And then on top of it all, they tell you that somehow this will be a good deal for you.

How would that make you feel given that you already paid once and effectively had a deal that you wouldn't have to pay again? Wouldn't that piss you off at all?

This is precisely what valve did to the cybercafe owners.
Guess you know more about the law then a Corporate lawyer. I didn't have to tell him anything, he is a gamer also, he already knew what was going on.

I would be upset with the company that sold me lifetime licsence, since they obviously had no right to sell it to me. If I was a cyber Cafe owner, I would be going after VU for a refund since they fraudantly sold me something that wasn't thiers to sell in the first place.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:52 AM   #60
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Default Re: Day Of Defeat: Source this month, with HDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ST:DS9
My transaction isn't even complete yet, they have not delivered on everything that was promised. Heck my cousin said that Valve may already be guilty of bait and switch since they have not delivered on my full product in a reasonable time.
No, your transaction is finished. Valve basically stated an indefinite period before they'll actually deliver DoD:S, that means they can wait as long as they want. Perhapse you didn't read the fine print?

Quote:
* This is an unreleased product and will be made available to purchasers upon its release. The release date for this product is uncertain and purchasers should not rely on any estimated release date.
The only way you could ever apply something reasonable is e.g. if they gave an approximate date of its release, and told you that you can expect it somewhere around then. In this case they clearly told you the opposite. Clearly, your transaction IS finished, regardless of whether they release DoD:S today or ten years from now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ST:DS9
Also you cannot put the Retail and the Download in the same category. Valve does not make very much from the retail (I think they make like 8-10%(?) of the profit from the publisher). If they give a procuct away for free to the retail people, then that could be considered a loss. I mean they may have made like $8 for every CE sold. They do have responsiblilities to thier stalk holders. I'll say it again, DOD:S is not a free game, it is an actuall game that was made to be sold, not given away. They lose out on money if they give it away for free, and the Stock holders may have legal retributions if Valve was to give it way for free.
No they wouldn't. If the stockholders didn't like it, they would vote to change the company policy, elect a new CEO, etc. There is no legal trouble in doing what they believe is in the better interest of the company, be it long term or short term. Giving away products doesn't always lose money either, haven't you ever heard of TINSTAAFL?
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