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Old 09-12-05, 06:34 PM   #1
lionguy
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Default 2 mousepointers

Hello! I am trying to get working two mice as separated mice. Physically I can use two mice but they both are sharing one mouse pointer. I want to get two pointers for each mouse. I want to try develop my own mouse pointer. But I have some hardware oriented questions.I need to build a hardware knowledge base about mice and their software development

So I have done some tests and here are the results:
X11 will not work if I am trying to assign the both mice separately (PS/2 and USB wireless mouse) as /dev/psaux (PS/2 mouse ) and /dev/input/mice (usb mouse). Why? it is very strange when both mice are connected separately can use one setting and connectivity values. X11 is running when both mice are connected as /dev/input/mice.
2. How can be laptops used with two separated hardware (mice and tap) simultaneously?
3. Is possible to write one extra pointer for xorg? Or maybe is easier to write the pointer as 3-rd party driver and assign it with USB mouse?

THe programming action I want to do is based by an idea to emulate a virtual mouse pointer for virtual screen . I do not want to clone the core pointer that is built into Xorg software code . This is really impossible, because it is a hardware assigned software section that can not be divided between more than one hardware. X ORG know that there can be only one mousepointer . and it is assigned with only one vga card. I want to add another pointer that will be used for virtual screen and that will be controlled only by USB mouse. Then VGA card will draw the virtual pointer movement, clicking and so on and that only on virtual screen.
Any comments?
Ideas?
All that I want to do have only one target: To make computer more functional, comfortable. Especially for saving time.And money.
I like to discover or create the new features for using the PC as practical and useful device in my daily life.
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Old 09-12-05, 07:10 PM   #2
JaXXoN
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Default Re: 2 mousepointers

Hi!

The mouse pointer device mapping looks like this:

/dev/psaux -> PS/2 mouse
/dev/input/mouse0 -> first connected USB mouse
/dev/input/mouse1 -> second connected USB mouse
/dev/input/mice -> mix of all connected USB mice

To my knowledge, it is not possible to have two physical pointers
controlled by one X-server, but you can create an X application that
directly opens i.e. /dev/input/mouse1 and renders a seperate pointer
inside the application window. I guess it should be possible to modifiy
"Xnest" so that it uses another mouse rather than the pointer from the
X Window System so that you can have two seperate desktops controlled
by two mice. If you like to have a multi-terminal, please refer to
http://www.c3sl.ufpr.br/multiterminal/howto-en.php.
I'm not 100% sure what you are trying to achive, please be more specific.

regards

Bernhard
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Old 09-14-05, 06:50 PM   #3
lionguy
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Default Re: 2 mousepointers

Thanks !

I think that multiterminal is not a solution I really want. That needs one extra VGA card. I have integrated VGA too but this can not to be used with AGP VGA at one time.
I am not sure I can to explain technical details about my idea that because I am not a programmer and I dont know how I exastly must to realize my idea. The simplest way is like that: I want to get one extra mousepointer for screen 0.1 (TV, that is connected via TV OUT ). And I want to use it with my USB wireless mouse. If multiterminals are assigned with the each vga cards separately, I want to get the mousepointer with one VGA card.
I think that X application development can be that I want but I dont know almost anything about programming in linux. I think that I need to programme a mouse pointer movement arguments, then assign this with usb mouse and then tell to x to use this pointer on the second screen.

What you mean with this:
"I guess it should be possible to modifiy
"Xnest" so that it uses another mouse rather than the pointer from the
X Window System so that you can have two seperate desktops controlled
by two mice."
What is "Xnest"?
I dont care how the mousepointer will be created but the highest priority is that i would to use it with xine or xmms on the second screen . I dont want to use the TV screen as the second PC screen. TV screen will have only a function for entertainment.
With the best
regards,
lionguy
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Old 09-14-05, 07:45 PM   #4
JaXXoN
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Default Re: 2 mousepointers

If i understand it correctly, then you want to attach a TV to the TV-out
of an nvidia card and a CRT or LCD on the VGA or DVI output of
the same nvidia card. Then you would like to use on mouse for a
pointer for the "standard" desktop on the CRT or LCD and a wireless
mouse for the pointer for the "multimedia" desktop on the TV?

This is not configurable with the current Xorg or XFree86 implementations
and AFAIK a multiterminal setup is not possible with a single nvidia card,
even if it has two outputs.

However one solution would be to setup on X-server with two seperate
screens (no twinview or xinerama) and using both, /dev/input/mice and
/dev/psaux as pointer devices. Then you just need to move the mouse to the
other screen in order to use it there (you can do that blindly, because you
know which direction you need to move to mouse until it shows up
on the multimedia or the standard desktop). Means, you won't actually
have two pointers, but can easily move the pointer from one screen to
the other one whenever necessary.

Another option would be to start one X-server with /dev/psaux and
CRT/LCD output on the xorg.conf and then starting another X-server
with /dev/input/mice and TV-out in a seperate X-server, i.e. with:
xinit /usr/local/bin/ut2004 -- :1 -xf86config xorg.conf-tv
Then you can easily switch between the X-server with CRTL+ALT+F7
and CRTL+ALT+F8. Means, you won't see both screens at the same
time and need to manualy switch.

regards

Bernhard
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Old 09-15-05, 06:09 AM   #5
lionguy
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Default Re: 2 mousepointers

Hello!

Yes, I can move the mousepointer from one desktop to another. I dont use xinerama or twinview. I just configured 2 screens and they are both active. But the second mousepointer can make useage of the PC more comfortable: when I am watching a movie at TV screen then another user can surf in the internet behind PC screen. Actually the "hiring" the mousepointer is not a comfort solution...
The manual switching is not a solution too. In this case there is not possible to use the PC by 2 users.

I am still thinking: How NVIDIA card can clone one desktop to the TV screen but to display another mousepointer is not possible? In the both cases (twinview clone and 2 separated screens) the screens are virtual screens. What is the difference between them?
Can you tell me about xnest , you noted in your post before?
I hope that I will find a key how programme the X application for the second mousepointer.

With the best regards,
lionguy
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Old 09-15-05, 08:52 AM   #6
JaXXoN
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Default Re: 2 mousepointers

Quote:
Originally Posted by lionguy
In this case there is not possible to use the PC by 2 users.
In this case, a multiterminal setup is what you realy want!

If your on-Board VGA card doesn't work in parallel to the
nvidia card (what exactly is the problem?) or is not
good enough (driver too slow for full screen video), then
i suggest purchasing another (older) nvidia card (PCI?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lionguy
How NVIDIA card can clone one desktop to the TV screen but to display
another mousepointer is not possible?
Having a second mouse pointer in clone mode is easy, because
the hardware simply sends the framebuffer content to two outputs
(DVI and scaled TV), whereas for two pointers on two screens,
the X-server and probably the window manager need to be modified:
i'm pretty sure there doesn't exist a wm that can handle multiple window
focuses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lionguy
Can you tell me about xnest , you noted in your post before?
Xnest starts an "X-Server in a window". i.e. if you have your login manager
configured to accept logins on display :1, then you can do

Xnest :1 -query localhost

And you can login a second time but within a window of your current
running desktop, i.e. using a different mw.

In your case, there are two problems: first, Xnest uses the mouse
pointer of it's window (means form the underlaying X server / desktop)
and you would need to modify Xnest to i.e. use /dev/input/mice, instead.
Second, Xnest is not very performant and probably won't be good enough
for video playback, i guess (but good enough for browsing and email).

For more information just do "man Xnest" or ask Google - there
are tons of information about Xnest on the web.

regards

Bernhard
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Old 09-15-05, 05:23 PM   #7
lionguy
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Default Re: 2 mousepointers

Thanks!

At my point of view I am not sure that I can run Onboard VGA parallel with AGP VGA card. From the newsgroups I got an answer that THIS is not possible. I tried to connect the LCD screen to my OnBoard VGA card but no video signal output from this port.
My mobo is a MSI P4MAM-L that is equipped with Pro SAVAGE S3 integrated AGP card. There are some configuration selections in my mobo`s BIOS but I am not sure may I change them without any risk of burnout of my mobo. An older PCI card would be a solution but I want to try another ways before I buy it.
Thanks for Your explanation. I will try to ask Google more about Xnest.I will think more about my problem. Anyway I hope that one exit I will find.
I post my Xorg configuration and You can see how my mice are configured.

Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier "Default layout"
Screen 0 "Screenmonitor"
Screen 1 "Screentv" leftof "Screenmonitor"
InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
InputDevice "Mouse1" "SendCoreEvents"

EndSection
Section "Module"
Load "dbe"
Load "extmod"
Load "fbdevhw"
Load "glx"
Load "record"
Load "freetype"
Load "type1"

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Mouse0"
Driver "mouse"
Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
Option "Emulate3Buttons" "yes"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Mouse1"
Driver "mouse"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2"
Option "Emulate3Buttons" "no"
Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection
And You can see that I am not able to set my PS/2 mouse as /dev/input/psaux
both mice are running as /dev/input/mice. I tried to do so but then X server did not start. I restored the old xorg.conf and then x started again.

With the best regards,
lionguy
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Old 09-15-05, 08:50 PM   #8
JaXXoN
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Default Re: 2 mousepointers

Quote:
Originally Posted by lionguy
At my point of view I am not sure that I can run Onboard VGA parallel with AGP VGA card. From the newsgroups I got an answer that THIS is not possible
Can you please provide a link to the posts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lionguy
I tried to connect the LCD screen to my OnBoard VGA card
but no video signal output from this port. My mobo is a MSI P4MAM-L that
is equipped with Pro SAVAGE S3 integrated AGP card.
What does an "lspci -vvv" or "cat /proc/pci" say?

If the Savage S3 shows up in the list(s), then it should be possible
to use that one instead of (or in combination with) the card in the AGP
slot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lionguy
There are some configuration selections in my mobo`s BIOS but I am not sure may I change them without any risk of burnout of my mobo.
Please be more specific about the BIOS options and your concerns to
"burnout" the mainboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lionguy
An older PCI card would be a solution but I want to try another ways before I buy it.
I guess purchasing another card causes the least headache, but feel
free to be creative :-)

Code:
Section "InputDevice"
	Identifier  "Mouse0"
	Driver      "mouse"
	Option	    "Protocol" "IMPS/2"
	Option	    "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
	Option	    "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
	Option	    "Emulate3Buttons" "yes"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Mouse1"
        Driver      "mouse"
        Option      "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
        Option      "Protocol" "IMPS/2"
        Option      "Emulate3Buttons" "no"
        Option      "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection
You are using two times "/dev/input/mice" as "Device". IIRC,
that the PS/2 mouse is not mixed into /dev/input/mice (only USB
mice are). You need to use "/dev/psaux" instead for one of the two
input device sections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lionguy
And You can see that I am not able to set my PS/2 mouse as /dev/input/psaux
both mice are running as /dev/input/mice. I tried to do so but then X server did not start. I restored the old xorg.conf and then x started again.
What does "cat /proc/misc" say? Does there exist an entry "1 psaux"?

regards

Bernhard
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Old 09-28-05, 05:44 PM   #9
lionguy
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Default Re: 2 mousepointers

Hello Bernhard!
I am back again!
The newsgroup where I got the answers to the AGP/Integrated VGA at one time: mission impossible is an estonian newsgroup. So the answers I should to translate to the english. If you`re still interested about the answers then let me know: I try to translate this conversation for you.

Here are the results of queries:
the cat /proc/pci tells that
Bus 0, device 1, function 0:
Class 0604: PCI device 1106:b091 (rev 0).
Master Capable. No bursts. Min Gnt=12.
Google tells that this is:
Subsystems for device 1106:b091: VT8633 [Apollo Pro266 AGP] I think that this is my integrated VGA card PCI entry.
So this exists
My mobo`s BIOS options are:
Power management setup options:
Sleep state: S1/POS
available option: S3/STR. I think that this can affect to my integrated VGA if I change this option to the S3/STR.
RUN VGABIOS if S3 Resume option
Current: AUTO (No video signal from integrated VGA on this option)
Available options: Yes, NO. I am afraid to change this option for burnout of my mobo
IRQ/Event ACtivity detect option:
VGA
Current:OFF
Available:ON
These are the options that may affect to my mobo or VGA by my point of view.

The cat /proc/misc tells that:
184 microcode
63 device-mapper
175 agpgart
135 rtc
There`s no entry about 1 psaux. But I am using a PS/2 mouse as my PC`s main mouse.
These are the answers. You told in one thread that the next release of the xorg will have an multiseat feature. Can this help me to use two mice as I want?

With the best regards:
lionguy
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Old 10-14-05, 06:24 PM   #10
lionguy
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Default Re: 2 mousepointers

What means Silken Mouse enabled?
I looked at my xorg.conf and I there are:
(==) NVIDIA(0): Silken mouse enabled
(==) NVIDIA(1): Silken mouse enabled
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Old 10-14-05, 06:43 PM   #11
AaronP
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Default Re: 2 mousepointers

"Silken Mouse" means that mouse events interrupt whatever's going on and are handled asynchronously.
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