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Old 10-12-05, 08:54 PM   #37
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Default Re: Hope none of you were planning on buying HL2 from Steam anytime soon...

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Originally Posted by Edge
For a distribution method that's supposed to benefit consumers, it seems to be having the opposite effect.
No no .. it benefits Valve ... not the customers. Valve can keep the price high like a retail game... but take in more profit.
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Old 10-13-05, 08:07 AM   #38
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Default Re: Hope none of you were planning on buying HL2 from Steam anytime soon...

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Originally Posted by $n][pErMan
No no .. it benefits Valve ... not the customers. Valve can keep the price high like a retail game... but take in more profit.
I actually dont ever remember Valve saying that games would be cheaper to buy through Steam. I think people just assumed it would be, and I don't know why because even D2D, which has been out for a long time now, charges full price for thier downloads. So Valve just created a better way to distribute, plus you don't need a special patch like you do with most of the D2D games, plus you can only install on one computer and if you reformat or make a major upgrade it can really be a pain in the butt.
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Old 10-13-05, 11:18 AM   #39
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Default Re: Hope none of you were planning on buying HL2 from Steam anytime soon...

yes, but anyone with half a brain knows that the excuse for high prices of games has always come down to the middlemen taking a large amount of the cash. same with music... you have the fatcats and the distributors and the advertising and the shops.

sooo, put 2 + 2 together and its obvious that steam should be a lot cheaper. which it isnt. which means valve are taking more money than before on each unit.
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Old 10-13-05, 12:14 PM   #40
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Default Re: Hope none of you were planning on buying HL2 from Steam anytime soon...

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Originally Posted by russ_3d
yes, but anyone with half a brain knows that the excuse for high prices of games has always come down to the middlemen taking a large amount of the cash. same with music... you have the fatcats and the distributors and the advertising and the shops.

sooo, put 2 + 2 together and its obvious that steam should be a lot cheaper. which it isnt. which means valve are taking more money than before on each unit.
Exactly, but if you look at online distrobution of music, too, you'll see that it's really not much cheaper than buying the CD. iTunes, songs are what, $1/ea and you can buy the whole album for what, $10? I'm just assuming, but let's say that's the case.

Well, with almost every CD released these days, for the first week for sure, the CD is on sale for $9.99 or less, and usually for the next few weeks, too. So...$10 on the digital download with crazy DRM, or $10 for the actual disc, with booklet, case, etc and NO DRM...tough choice.

Online, digital distrobution is SUPPOSED to be cheaper, but with the basic tenant of greed in human nature, it's not and probably never will be.
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Old 10-13-05, 01:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: Hope none of you were planning on buying HL2 from Steam anytime soon...

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Originally Posted by superklye
Exactly, but if you look at online distrobution of music, too, you'll see that it's really not much cheaper than buying the CD. iTunes, songs are what, $1/ea and you can buy the whole album for what, $10? I'm just assuming, but let's say that's the case.

Well, with almost every CD released these days, for the first week for sure, the CD is on sale for $9.99 or less, and usually for the next few weeks, too. So...$10 on the digital download with crazy DRM, or $10 for the actual disc, with booklet, case, etc and NO DRM...tough choice.

Online, digital distrobution is SUPPOSED to be cheaper, but with the basic tenant of greed in human nature, it's not and probably never will be.
Yes .. but with music, the idea is you only buy the songs you want. I use MSN music when I only want 2 or 3 songs from a CD.. and the quality is just as good. When I want a whole CD, I'll go buy it because its the same price... so I might as well get a hard copy.
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Old 10-13-05, 02:11 PM   #42
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Default Re: Hope none of you were planning on buying HL2 from Steam anytime soon...

and again, isnt MSN a middleman? its being the distro, i bet that they are taking at least 50% of the profits. so, in theory it should be 50% cheaper when buying direct from the artists, and if it isnt, then they are taking double money are they not? well, minus the astronomical cost of 4 gigs being sent to you
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Old 10-13-05, 05:21 PM   #43
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Default Re: Hope none of you were planning on buying HL2 from Steam anytime soon...

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Originally Posted by russ_3d
and again, isnt MSN a middleman? its being the distro, i bet that they are taking at least 50% of the profits. so, in theory it should be 50% cheaper when buying direct from the artists, and if it isnt, then they are taking double money are they not? well, minus the astronomical cost of 4 gigs being sent to you
ya .. but unlike the gaming issue .. while MSN is a distro for music... its giving you the freedom to buy just the few songs you want. Unlike the game issue.. where you get the same hting (if not less) than you would retail for the same damn price.
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Old 10-13-05, 06:11 PM   #44
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Default Re: Hope none of you were planning on buying HL2 from Steam anytime soon...

Well, if you look at the Steam packages it is still cheaper to buy through Steam. The $60 package on Steam would cost you $90 if you were to buy through retail and you would have 2 CS:S. The $80 package would cost you $110 in retail. So you save money by buying the bulk packages on Steam.

Anyways this is how buisness goes. You charge what the consumers are willing to pay. So if the majority of the consumers are willing to pay the Steam prices, then those prices will stay, but if Valve realizes that the consumers are not willing to pay that much, then they'll change thier prices. That makes alot of buisness sense to me, and is nothing out of the ordinary. They are a buisness to make money, they also have investors that they are obligated to who expect them to make as much money as they can. Remember, consumers have alot of power, and they speak out with thier wallets. If these prices are unreasonable, then the consumers will speak out by not buying those packages, and Valve will lower thier prices.

And to respond to a post earlier from SuperKyle. I believe you were alluding to me being a fan boy, and that is why I agree with thier pricing with Steam packages. If Blizzard was to do the same exact thing, I would still agree with that, and I don't even like any of Blizzard games that they have ever made.
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Old 10-13-05, 09:23 PM   #45
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Default Re: Hope none of you were planning on buying HL2 from Steam anytime soon...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ST:DS9
Well, if you look at the Steam packages it is still cheaper to buy through Steam. The $60 package on Steam would cost you $90 if you were to buy through retail and you would have 2 CS:S. The $80 package would cost you $110 in retail. So you save money by buying the bulk packages on Steam.

Anyways this is how buisness goes. You charge what the consumers are willing to pay. So if the majority of the consumers are willing to pay the Steam prices, then those prices will stay, but if Valve realizes that the consumers are not willing to pay that much, then they'll change thier prices. That makes alot of buisness sense to me, and is nothing out of the ordinary. They are a buisness to make money, they also have investors that they are obligated to who expect them to make as much money as they can. Remember, consumers have alot of power, and they speak out with thier wallets. If these prices are unreasonable, then the consumers will speak out by not buying those packages, and Valve will lower thier prices.

And to respond to a post earlier from SuperKyle. I believe you were alluding to me being a fan boy, and that is why I agree with thier pricing with Steam packages. If Blizzard was to do the same exact thing, I would still agree with that, and I don't even like any of Blizzard games that they have ever made.
I would not say your a fanboy .. just someone who likes getting ripped off You are just spouting off simple business stuff I learned in my first year of engineering .... but the point of the thread is how we are getting less for the same price (in some cases a high price). I dont think anyone is interested in learning how businesses screw people in the butt. Granted... many people are willing to pay the prices on steam for mods (although a lot of people are also very stupid and don't know they are getting ripped off... or have more money than they need and dont care to watch thier spending), however you are now starting to see simple mods cost money. I htink in the long run this is really going to ruin some of the diversity of the mods that come out... ones that get featured by valve (who will own the rights) will get all the play while some better mods (created by people who enjoy doing it in thier spare time) will get looked over. Also, im willing to bet at some point they will start charging for maps and stuff. Just silly. In the past, many people would buy games looking forward to the free mods and cool stuff.. now they can look forward to paying more just to get the extras. I will note that I like Half-Life 2 ... im GLAD I bought RETAIL and am still happy with my purchase even though I think charging for DOD:S was stupid (im not going to buy it either). However, as a company... I htink its also valve DUTY to RETURN some of the FAN FAVOR back to the FANS and either lower some prices or give out some cool free mods without charging for them. Afterall.... it is cheaper for them now. Why screw the people who keep you going? Maybe I just value my customers who do business with me more than valve values thier customers...
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Old 10-13-05, 10:21 PM   #46
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Default Re: Hope none of you were planning on buying HL2 from Steam anytime soon...

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Originally Posted by $n][pErMan
I would not say your a fanboy .. just someone who likes getting ripped off You are just spouting off simple business stuff I learned in my first year of engineering .... but the point of the thread is how we are getting less for the same price (in some cases a high price). I dont think anyone is interested in learning how businesses screw people in the butt. Granted... many people are willing to pay the prices on steam for mods (although a lot of people are also very stupid and don't know they are getting ripped off... or have more money than they need and dont care to watch thier spending), however you are now starting to see simple mods cost money. I htink in the long run this is really going to ruin some of the diversity of the mods that come out... ones that get featured by valve (who will own the rights) will get all the play while some better mods (created by people who enjoy doing it in thier spare time) will get looked over. Also, im willing to bet at some point they will start charging for maps and stuff. Just silly. In the past, many people would buy games looking forward to the free mods and cool stuff.. now they can look forward to paying more just to get the extras. I will note that I like Half-Life 2 ... im GLAD I bought RETAIL and am still happy with my purchase even though I think charging for DOD:S was stupid (im not going to buy it either). However, as a company... I htink its also valve DUTY to RETURN some of the FAN FAVOR back to the FANS and either lower some prices or give out some cool free mods without charging for them. Afterall.... it is cheaper for them now. Why screw the people who keep you going? Maybe I just value my customers who do business with me more than valve values thier customers...

Well, they are giving us Lost Coast which has new features in it, that even modders can use in thier own mods. Then didn't they announce that Aftermath was going be like $15 or something, and considering that its about half as long as most other FPS expansions that price seems right. The other thing is, DOD:S is not a mod, it was created from the ground up, much like any other that would use the Source Engine (IE Vampires: Bloodlines, Might and Magic: Dark Messiah). I feel that Valve has done alot for the community (more then most developers), but it just doesn't seem like it is enough for some. If DOD:S was just a simple mod, then I would agree with you. But DOD:S is not just run of the mill mod, it was a game created from the ground up using the Souce engine. Its not fair to consider every game that Valve makes using the Source engine as a mod, if you do that then you would have to consider every game that uses Souce engine as a Mod like Vampires Bloodlines.
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Old 10-14-05, 01:20 AM   #47
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Default Re: Hope none of you were planning on buying HL2 from Steam anytime soon...

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Originally Posted by ST:DS9
And to respond to a post earlier from SuperKyle. I believe you were alluding to me being a fan boy, and that is why I agree with thier pricing with Steam packages. If Blizzard was to do the same exact thing, I would still agree with that, and I don't even like any of Blizzard games that they have ever made.
It took you long enough...

And, look, I don't care if you think they're doing "the right thing" because these Steam packages don't affect me. I already bought the game and I'm not going to buy it again. The only reason I argue with you about what a piece of sh!t VALVe is, is because it THEIR game and regardless of the CE being "Vivendi's product" there is nothing stopping VALVe from giving the CE owners DoD:S. I know it didn't say anything about it on the box, but does that mean they can't do a nice thing? You seem to think they're so ****ing great and wonderful, yet they can't give an extra game to people that overpaid $80 for something not worth $40.

We don't see eye to eye and we won't so there is no point in arguing about it. I think VALVe is a bunch of used, dried up condoms on some scuzzy gas station bathroom floor, and you think they're the second coming of Christ. Whatever. It's cool.
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Old 10-14-05, 06:34 AM   #48
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Default Re: Hope none of you were planning on buying HL2 from Steam anytime soon...

To the poster that said $20 is a "steal" for CS:S: I know what a "steal" is. It's not paying for a game that the seller didnt make. How about we go "steal" someone elses work and charge people 20 bucks to play it? I know I know, Valve upgraded CS. They upgraded it with 10 fewer maps, including those which were there back in beta 5, 1 character model per team, and buggy hitboxes. Hey, looking at it this way, it really does look like a good deal to me!
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