Lower detail distance for ATI cards?

OWA · 10-16-05, 03:23 PM

Recently, I was reading a thread on a different subject and stumbled across some info on ATI cards having a lower detail distance than nvidia in Half-Life 2. It came to light when comparing the X1800XT with the 7800GTX and someone noticed some items that were visible in the nvidia screenshot were missing in the ATI screenshot. They also mentioned that the setting seemed to be that way for the X1800s, the X850s and possibly all ATI cards.

The setting is: cl_detaildist and for ATI cards it apparently defaults to 1200 while for Nvidia cards it defaults to 1600.

Just on a spot check, this caused a 10 fps hit on the 7800s (121fps at 1200, 111fps at 1600) that was most noticeable with vegetation in the scene (in the limited areas I've checked).

I believe they have sent a question to Valve asking why this is the case but this is really bugging me. It seems too shady and obvious so that there must a reason for it. So, anyone have any info on this or maybe why it would be done?

1600..........................1200 (notice missing grass when at 1200)

Mr. Hunt · 10-16-05, 03:25 PM

Wow... if this is how they got ATIs to "perform better" then that is pretty low... I hope that isn't the case... and yet I am positive it is :\.

**Rakeesh** · 10-16-05, 03:40 PM

It is probably one of many "optimizations" valve made for ATI's cards. Valve will probably spin this into something else.

Sazar · 10-16-05, 03:41 PM

I took 2 shots. One from basically the same spot as you and one from further back on my card. Default settings of 16x12 @ 4aa/16af

Compare and see. The grass doesn't show in the shot that is farther away but it shows clearly in the shot like yours. If anything I think I was farther away in my first shot than yours but its close enough.

Hope this helps in your assessment.

-edit-

Btw absolutely love the way people are leaping all over this w/o any info to backup their comemnts

Spin away, woohoo.

Sazar · 10-16-05, 03:48 PM

Went back and moved over to the left a little more to match your shots.

Also moved directly back from there to show the distance at which the grass starts to disappear.

Should make for an easier compare.

-edit-

I guess I am still a little behind the spot you were at

shock3r · 10-16-05, 04:00 PM

I just fired up HL2 on my P43.0/6600GT/1GB box, and checked cl_detaildist. It was set to 1200.

Sazar · 10-16-05, 04:12 PM

Hmm, mine was set to 1600 by default, I just checked. Seems where-ever this information orginated from, its bogus.

OWA · 10-16-05, 04:14 PM

Hmm, then I'm not sure what is going on. I saw the info posted on B3D and it was in reference to the preview Ratchet did (also had a link to Rage3D). I just assumed they were correct.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showth...065#post598065

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost...9&postcount=10

Edit: Although, he said it was that way for X850 and X1800 cards and most likely all of them but I guess that's not the case.

Quote:

Yep, I was hoping someone would notice that. It seems that Valve automatically sets the cvar "cl_detaildist" to 1200 for the X1800 (and X850, likely all ATI cards) and to 1600 for the 7800GT/GTX.

I have yet to figure out how to set both to the same setting for benchmark purposes because it always reverts back to the preset setting when the map loads. I've tried forcing it via the command line and in the config.cfg/autoexec.cfg files. If anyone has a suggestion...

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pino
http://rage3d.com/reviews/video/atix1800xt/afcomp.php

anyone else noticed some missing objects in x1800xt and x850 screenies ?

yep, it's been noticed.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost...9&postcount=10
I asked Valve why the cards have a different draw distance but no response yet

Edit: BTW, it was 1600 for my X800 Pro but I thought it might have been that way because I started with nvidia cards in the system first then later switched to the X800 Pro. If that is set on the fly depending on what card is in the system, then it seems the X800 Pro would also be okay.

Sazar · 10-16-05, 04:18 PM

Odd. I don't have an r520 to test this on obviously

but this is what mine defaults to.

It's a fresh install of HL2 as well so no tweaks there.

I have no idea why Ratchet said what he did. Maybe it is something to do with the r520's and their beta drivers? I have no idea.

Wrt IQ, I have personally not noticed any differences whatsoever between my current card and my old ultra OC. Speed is different but thats about it.

ST:DS9 · 10-16-05, 04:20 PM

nevermind, firend misunderstood me. Thought I was talking abou resolution,

OWA · 10-16-05, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST:DS9

I have a friend who has a 7800, and his is default at 1200 also.

nevermind, firend misunderstood me. Thought I was talking abou resolution,

Hmm, that's odd. It defaults to 1600 for my 7800s and 1600 for the X800 Pro. Maybe they set it based on the day of the week.

Edit: Nevermind, caught you editing.

OWA · 10-16-05, 04:29 PM

So, it looks like so far, only the 6600GT defaults to 1200. Maybe you're right Sazar, maybe it had to do with beta drivers and if he was using them when testing the X850 as well, I guess that could explain why it did the same with it. For example, maybe the game couldn't determine the model of the cards or something so it defaulted to a lower end card settings.

10-16-05, 03:23 PM	#1
OWA ... Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,481	Lower detail distance for ATI cards? Recently, I was reading a thread on a different subject and stumbled across some info on ATI cards having a lower detail distance than nvidia in Half-Life 2. It came to light when comparing the X1800XT with the 7800GTX and someone noticed some items that were visible in the nvidia screenshot were missing in the ATI screenshot. They also mentioned that the setting seemed to be that way for the X1800s, the X850s and possibly all ATI cards. The setting is: cl_detaildist and for ATI cards it apparently defaults to 1200 while for Nvidia cards it defaults to 1600. Just on a spot check, this caused a 10 fps hit on the 7800s (121fps at 1200, 111fps at 1600) that was most noticeable with vegetation in the scene (in the limited areas I've checked). I believe they have sent a question to Valve asking why this is the case but this is really bugging me. It seems too shady and obvious so that there must a reason for it. So, anyone have any info on this or maybe why it would be done? 1600..........................1200 (notice missing grass when at 1200)

10-16-05, 03:25 PM	#2
Mr. Hunt Rectal Gravy Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 8,294	Re: Lower detail distance for ATI cards? Wow... if this is how they got ATIs to "perform better" then that is pretty low... I hope that isn't the case... and yet I am positive it is :\.

10-16-05, 03:40 PM	#3
Rakeesh Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Sonoran Desert Posts: 6,863	Re: Lower detail distance for ATI cards? It is probably one of many "optimizations" valve made for ATI's cards. Valve will probably spin this into something else. __________________ Want to listen to audio without your computer going to sleep? Try this. Core i7 2600k 4.4Ghz 1.385v \| Corsair H60 \| 8GB Corsair Vengeance 1600 8-8-8-24 \| MSI P67A-G45 \| OCZ Vertex 3 \| Sapphire 7850 OC to Max settings

10-16-05, 03:41 PM	#4
Sazar Sayonara !!! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 9,297	Re: Lower detail distance for ATI cards? I took 2 shots. One from basically the same spot as you and one from further back on my card. Default settings of 16x12 @ 4aa/16af Compare and see. The grass doesn't show in the shot that is farther away but it shows clearly in the shot like yours. If anything I think I was farther away in my first shot than yours but its close enough. Hope this helps in your assessment. -edit- Btw absolutely love the way people are leaping all over this w/o any info to backup their comemnts Spin away, woohoo. __________________ Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home - Is it in you?

10-16-05, 03:48 PM	#5
Sazar Sayonara !!! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 9,297	Re: Lower detail distance for ATI cards? Went back and moved over to the left a little more to match your shots. Also moved directly back from there to show the distance at which the grass starts to disappear. Should make for an easier compare. -edit- I guess I am still a little behind the spot you were at __________________ Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home - Is it in you?

10-16-05, 04:00 PM	#6
shock3r Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 6	Re: Lower detail distance for ATI cards? I just fired up HL2 on my P43.0/6600GT/1GB box, and checked cl_detaildist. It was set to 1200.

10-16-05, 04:12 PM	#7
Sazar Sayonara !!! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 9,297	Re: Lower detail distance for ATI cards? Hmm, mine was set to 1600 by default, I just checked. Seems where-ever this information orginated from, its bogus. __________________ Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home - Is it in you?

10-16-05, 04:18 PM	#9
Sazar Sayonara !!! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 9,297	Re: Lower detail distance for ATI cards? Odd. I don't have an r520 to test this on obviously but this is what mine defaults to. It's a fresh install of HL2 as well so no tweaks there. I have no idea why Ratchet said what he did. Maybe it is something to do with the r520's and their beta drivers? I have no idea. Wrt IQ, I have personally not noticed any differences whatsoever between my current card and my old ultra OC. Speed is different but thats about it. __________________ Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home - Is it in you?

10-16-05, 04:20 PM	#10
ST:DS9 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 273	Re: Lower detail distance for ATI cards? nevermind, firend misunderstood me. Thought I was talking abou resolution,

10-16-05, 04:29 PM	#12
OWA ... Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,481	Re: Lower detail distance for ATI cards? So, it looks like so far, only the 6600GT defaults to 1200. Maybe you're right Sazar, maybe it had to do with beta drivers and if he was using them when testing the X850 as well, I guess that could explain why it did the same with it. For example, maybe the game couldn't determine the model of the cards or something so it defaulted to a lower end card settings.