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Old 10-28-05, 09:33 PM   #109
sillyeagle
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Default Re: *** Official Lost Coast Feedback Thread ***

No matter how they choose to do it, "forum people" are going to complain, they are never satisfied.

If the affect was toned down, some people would complain because it’s not noticeable, when they crank it up to showcase the affect, others complain because its over the top.

It’s either too black, too white, too gray, or too much contrast. Where is there room for satisfaction?

What gets me is all these "forum people" sitting behind their keyboards pretending to have a superior view, pretending to be experts in the implementation of cutting edge technology and gameplay features, looking down upon those who spend the better part of their life in researching and development, those who are paid to actually do what the “forum people” can only dream of.

You certainly won't hear game developers downing each others work, they respect it. They recognize the time, creativity, talent, and genius it takes to produce the top echelon of real-time graphics technology and subversive gameplay experiences.

There is not a developer out there that does not admire Valve for what they have done. But "forum people" on the other hand, they just like to
B*tch and moan in perpetual disappointment. It must be a sorry life. I for one, live in perpetual amazement and admiration for the beauty and intensity of experience these top notch developers offer me, on a continual basis, with the dedication of their lives.
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Old 10-28-05, 10:07 PM   #110
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Default Re: *** Official Lost Coast Feedback Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by anticitizenzero
Far Cry HDR was horrible, it was just like they slapped it on the game and said heres HDR, Lost Coast they took time to implement it correctly, so light bulbs wouldnt put out the same amount of light as a small sun like far cry does.
Well, the HDR in FarCry and in Lost Coast is overdone. The only game with actually did it right up till now is Splinter Cell - Chaos Theory.

Although when comparing to Lost Coast, Crytek readjusted a whole game to HDR in less than 6 months wherethou Valve took one year to get a 10 minutes long map out of the door.

So, your argument doesn't really hold water.
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Old 10-28-05, 10:10 PM   #111
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Default Re: *** Official Lost Coast Feedback Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillyeagle
No matter how they choose to do it, "forum people" are going to complain, they are never satisfied.

If the affect was toned down, some people would complain because it’s not noticeable, when they crank it up to showcase the affect, others complain because its over the top.

It’s either too black, too white, too gray, or too much contrast. Where is there room for satisfaction?

What gets me is all these "forum people" sitting behind their keyboards pretending to have a superior view, pretending to be experts in the implementation of cutting edge technology and gameplay features, looking down upon those who spend the better part of their life in researching and development, those who are paid to actually do what the “forum people” can only dream of.

You certainly won't hear game developers downing each others work, they respect it. They recognize the time, creativity, talent, and genius it takes to produce the top echelon of real-time graphics technology and subversive gameplay experiences.

There is not a developer out there that does not admire Valve for what they have done. But "forum people" on the other hand, they just like to
B*tch and moan in perpetual disappointment. It must be a sorry life. I for one, live in perpetual amazement and admiration for the beauty and intensity of experience these top notch developers offer me, on a continual basis, with the dedication of their lives.

If you notice, there's people that love it, people that hate it, and people that are just indifferent to it. They're called opinions. Without them and without voicing them there would be no basis for improvement. I don't care how many college classes you take on marketing, research and development. Everything you do comes down to collecting feedback and collaborating.

As for "forum people" I don't know what you mean. Usually a forum filled with a bunch of people with a common interest who want to express their ideas or opinions. You're doing that here so what makes you any different? You happen to love the game and that's great .

You'll notice that in many fields there's not a lot of criticism besides praise from the inside (Movies, Music, etc), and you're correct, it's mostly out of respect. You can't expect anyone from the outside to realise EXACTLY how much work was put into something. It doesn't mean that some don't realize this, or are totally clueless. This brings us back to the beginning about the end-users' experience. It's a gamers' market, not a developers'. If they want to wow people with tech demos then that has it's place. In the end they need to sell a game.

Now, my personal opinion on Lost Coast is that it was great for a tech demo and the commentary really had some interesting info on how different effects were done. HDR was used nicely to my eyes. As an additional level it was short, pointless and really didn't fit in anywhere which is why it was cut in the first place.

We all have our opinions, but expecting everyone to express your opinion is not going to happen.
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Old 10-28-05, 10:14 PM   #112
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Default Re: *** Official Lost Coast Feedback Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrow
Well, the HDR in FarCry and in Lost Coast is overdone. The only game with actually did it right up till now is Splinter Cell - Chaos Theory.

Although when comparing to Lost Coast, Crytek readjusted a whole game to HDR in less than 6 months wherethou Valve took one year to get a 10 minutes long map out of the door.

So, your argument doesn't really hold water.
You can't compare two entirely different engines. Alot of the Source engine had to be rewritten for HDR, I doubt the same is for FarCry. FarCry was trying to push many graphical features when it was released, I would not be suprised if they made the engine very flexible, and the ability to add HDR simple.

And don't you go comparing, Crytek promised us a bunch of stuff, much of which was not even delievered.

And 6 months? No way, Crytek talked about adding SM3.0 features WAY before that.
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Old 10-28-05, 10:39 PM   #113
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Default Re: *** Official Lost Coast Feedback Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by TierMann
If you notice, there's people that love it, people that hate it, and people that are just indifferent to it. They're called opinions. Without them and without voicing them there would be no basis for improvement. I don't care how many college classes you take on marketing, research and development. Everything you do comes down to collecting feedback and collaborating.

As for "forum people" I don't know what you mean. Usually a forum filled with a bunch of people with a common interest who want to express their ideas or opinions. You're doing that here so what makes you any different? You happen to love the game and that's great .

You'll notice that in many fields there's not a lot of criticism besides praise from the inside (Movies, Music, etc), and you're correct, it's mostly out of respect. You can't expect anyone from the outside to realise EXACTLY how much work was put into something. It doesn't mean that some don't realize this, or are totally clueless. This brings us back to the beginning about the end-users' experience. It's a gamers' market, not a developers'. If they want to wow people with tech demos then that has it's place. In the end they need to sell a game.

Now, my personal opinion on Lost Coast is that it was great for a tech demo and the commentary really had some interesting info on how different effects were done. HDR was used nicely to my eyes. As an additional level it was short, pointless and really didn't fit in anywhere which is why it was cut in the first place.

We all have our opinions, but expecting everyone to express your opinion is not going to happen.
I admire most all games as an expression of the vision the developer was aiming to achieve. But I see way to many people talking down upon a game or developer because it was not desinged specifically to suite thier preference. Feedback is good, but thats not what I see here by some. I've seen quite a few "bash valve" threads around this board, but hey, people can say whatever they want, thats what a forum is for, and your right, I'm no different than any other "forum person", just a guy with a view. But I don't bash the work of those who put into practice what I can only imagine. They have achived thier vision, reagardless of how long it took, what more could we ask for?
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Old 10-28-05, 10:52 PM   #114
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Default Re: *** Official Lost Coast Feedback Thread ***

I agree with most of that. The valve bashing does get out of hand and is usually intervened upon by a mod to get things back on topic. There are those who share your view though on that right here in this forum as you've probably seen. There was recently a "Let's hear it for Monolith" thread or something similar too.
And yes, props to the developers, artists, designers, coffee boys, etc who get these games/visions out there.
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Old 10-28-05, 11:23 PM   #115
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Default Re: *** Official Lost Coast Feedback Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by jAkUp
You can't compare two entirely different engines. Alot of the Source engine had to be rewritten for HDR, I doubt the same is for FarCry. FarCry was trying to push many graphical features when it was released, I would not be suprised if they made the engine very flexible, and the ability to add HDR simple.

And don't you go comparing, Crytek promised us a bunch of stuff, much of which was not even delievered.

And 6 months? No way, Crytek talked about adding SM3.0 features WAY before that.
Actually, it's really quite the opposite. HDR was SUPPOSED to be a feature in the engine when it was shown 2 years ago, but it was then removed. Since then, everyone has been wondering "what happened to the HDR?". Now, finally, it's in the engine...however it only works with things that are designed for it. Which is quite strange, because during interviews Valve constantly mentions how the Source engine was designed to be flexible and have new things added to it. I think at one point, they even mentioned that they wanted to use and build up the Source engine over the next 10 years. So if anything, I'd expect Source to be MORE flexible than anything else.

For Far Cry, HDR was never really planned. In fact, it seems more like a feature that they were designing for Splinter Cell 3 and went "you know, I wonder if we can get this in Far Cry...". It's really amazing they took the time to actually integrate it into the ENTIRE game (and of course, every mod and even multiplayer), even if it was still a beta implimentation. And it wasn't a feature that they really hyped either, in fact you wouldn't even know it was in the game unless you heard it from a forum user most likely.

Also, for those saying people shouldn't complain, you really don't seem to understand the point. The thing is, Valve has been pimping HDR/Lost Coast to DEATH for almost a year now. They consider it to be a big deal, so much that they even consider it a seperate product from HL2 (just look on the Steam package page). And then in the end...it was an extremely tiny map that only offers 10 minutes of gameplay and a graphic effect that doesn't work anywhere in the regular HL2. Now if they HADN'T hyped it up so much, and it's release was more sudden, it would've been more surprising, and almost everyone would've probably went "oh wow, what an awsome freebie". It's not the level we have a problem with, it's the hype and build up that Valve put into it. Don't confuse the two.
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Old 10-28-05, 11:26 PM   #116
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Default Re: *** Official Lost Coast Feedback Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by jAkUp
You can't compare two entirely different engines. Alot of the Source engine had to be rewritten for HDR, I doubt the same is for FarCry.
I'm not comparing both HDR implementations with eachother but I'm comparing both HDR implementations with what HDR really is meant to be.

I'm currently working a small HDR film production using 3ds max and brazil and neither of the two gaming HDR implementation does come near movie quality HDR. HDR used in movies is actually quite a different beast using image based lighting which is lacking here.

Both implementations are done differently, no doubt, but none is really more advanced than the other. They are only done in different ways.
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Old 10-29-05, 08:10 AM   #117
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Default Re: *** Official Lost Coast Feedback Thread ***

I think comparing HDR implementations across game engines is fine, after all your comparing how HDR looks so it's an apples to apples comparison. Each engine will implement the feature differently but how it looks on the screen is the important thing.

I also think it's okay to criticize how any game feature looks or is implemented, each of us views a game differently and has the right to speak their mind on how they feel about it. Others also have the right to ignore our opinions but not to tell us not to give them.

As for me I've worked for Apple Computer, Compaq Computer, Cirrus Logic's Graphics Division, and 3DFX so I think I've earned the right to have an opinion about a game.

I'm certain many others in this forum work in the industry so maybe it's time for us to share what we do so others can have a better feel for our experience when we give an opinion. But in the end no matter what you do an opinion is just that, an opinion and no better than any other.
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Old 10-29-05, 10:28 AM   #118
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Default Re: *** Official Lost Coast Feedback Thread ***

Mine doesn't start up at all

I launch the game.... and nothing :'(
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Old 10-29-05, 03:46 PM   #119
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Default Re: *** Official Lost Coast Feedback Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentkay
Do you get cut when you are over 1GB or do you have to pay for every MB after the 1GB is used up? One thing you could do, try safe as much dnl bandwidth in a month as possible and then a day or two before the month ends, download half of LC and then finish the download when the new month starts. That way you wouldn´t loose a third of your dnl bandwidth.

Either way, I don´t think its alllllll that great if you´d end up paying money or be without the net (unless you don´t mind of course), because after all its a 30 minute thing (when playing it 3 times). And its even less worth it if you have seen HDR in Far Cry or Splinter Cell anyway.
Hey Agent. No I don't get entirely cut off but my bandwidth drops to modem speed once this happens there is no way to play Battlefield 2 . I might just wait until near the end of the month and dnl then it won't bother me if it takes a little longer to get.
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Old 10-29-05, 04:08 PM   #120
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Default Re: *** Official Lost Coast Feedback Thread ***

Anyone know if Valve are going to use HDR in Aftermath??
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