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Old 11-17-05, 05:16 PM   #13
uOpt
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Default Re: FreeBSD x64 NVIDIA DRIVER - now possible

Rubbish busting.
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Old 11-29-05, 10:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: FreeBSD x64 NVIDIA DRIVER - now possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by arokh
Why does everybody think they NEED to run 64 bit because their CPU supports it? I'll let you in on a secret, you don't! It's not gonna double your performance, and if you don't know what 64 bit is you don't need it.
Point taken, but you fail to see if you did purchase a 64bit why be forced to run x86 instead of amd64, their reasoning might not make sense neither does yours to some extent. You sit here preach oh dont complain, why do you need to run 64bit.. well heres what i have to say to you to each their own. But dont put them down cause they choose to run amd64 and want the drivers.
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Old 11-29-05, 11:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: FreeBSD x64 NVIDIA DRIVER - now possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Cracauer
Rubbish busting.
If you are rubbish busting, you may want to be more accurate. There is almost no chance of 64bit code running slower than 32bit code. And while the 64bit chips will run most software at equivelent speeds in 32bit mode, some applications, like MySQL, will see a marked improvement in speed. Running 64 bit will also allow the computer to take advantage of many of the new processor commands that are not present in the 32bit spec.
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Old 11-29-05, 11:19 PM   #16
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Default Re: FreeBSD x64 NVIDIA DRIVER - now possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by codedragon76
If you are rubbish busting, you may want to be more accurate. There is almost no chance of 64bit code running slower than 32bit code. And while the 64bit chips will run most software at equivelent speeds in 32bit mode, some applications, like MySQL, will see a marked improvement in speed. Running 64 bit will also allow the computer to take advantage of many of the new processor commands that are not present in the 32bit spec.
Uh?

You seem to have lost context entirely.

Look again what I was commenting on. That nonsense about the supposed slowdown above 1 GB and how the "2GB/2GB" split (nice one) is "hurting performance". Which is all rubbish, and pretty good one.

And if you have never seen a single piece of software run slower in 64 bit mode than 32 bit mode, just go as far as bzip2. I never said it is common but it does exist.

As for what you call "the new processor commands", do you have any idea what you are talking about? Like "sit" and "play dead"?

Is this a zoo?

You people don't deserve a new driver.
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Old 11-29-05, 11:43 PM   #17
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Default Re: FreeBSD x64 NVIDIA DRIVER - now possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Cracauer
Uh?

You seem to have lost context entirely.

Look again what I was commenting on. That nonsense about the supposed slowdown above 1 GB and how the "2GB/2GB" split (nice one) is "hurting performance". Which is all rubbish, and pretty good one.

And if you have never seen a single piece of software run slower in 64 bit mode than 32 bit mode, just go as far as bzip2. I never said it is common but it does exist.

As for what you call "the new processor commands", do you have any idea what you are talking about? Like "sit" and "play dead"?

Is this a zoo?

You people don't deserve a new driver.

Strange that they would design a whole brand new chip, based on a new architecture mind you, and never bother to optimise the chip by adding new optimised processor commands.... Oh wait.. they did add new optimizations. Therefore don't try to come off all educated, you are embarresing yourself.
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Old 11-29-05, 11:56 PM   #18
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Default Re: FreeBSD x64 NVIDIA DRIVER - now possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by codedragon76
Strange that they would design a whole brand new chip, based on a new architecture mind you, and never bother to optimise the chip by adding new optimised processor commands.... Oh wait.. they did add new optimizations. Therefore don't try to come off all educated, you are embarresing yourself.
Okay, they added new optimizations. And algorithms. And logarithms.

Did we actually disagree on anything? Last time I looked you were just sniping on me just for pointing out that memory above 1 GB is not slower (it isn't) and that the 2/2GB boundary (which neither FreeBSD nor Linux have) make things "slower" (which they don't).

I don't see what anything you said has to do with any of that, except that you made that claim that there is no single program running slower in 64 bit mode than 32 bit mode. If you know what a pointer size is it should be pretty obvious to you that I can easily come up with example programs that run slower. How about one of the fancy string representations that have charaters in linked lists?
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Old 11-30-05, 01:28 AM   #19
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Default Re: FreeBSD x64 NVIDIA DRIVER - now possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Cracauer
Uh?

You seem to have lost context entirely.

Look again what I was commenting on. That nonsense about the supposed slowdown above 1 GB and how the "2GB/2GB" split (nice one) is "hurting performance". Which is all rubbish, and pretty good one.

And if you have never seen a single piece of software run slower in 64 bit mode than 32 bit mode, just go as far as bzip2. I never said it is common but it does exist.

As for what you call "the new processor commands", do you have any idea what you are talking about? Like "sit" and "play dead"?

Is this a zoo?

You people don't deserve a new driver.
Let me just point out, that in my own experience (benchmarks that were done on RHEL and Slackware, both Linux, with our own server), a 4G/4G split (on a machine with 2GB) reduced the I/O performance by as much as 15%; 3G/1G split reduced the performance by ~10% compared to 64bit code. And we are talking about I/O (both network and disk code) that has little, if any, need for the added 64bit registers.
Furthermore, my own application (that runs purely in kernel mode) is around 30% faster, as I can do all the "long long" math and hashing in a single instruction instead of the usual "instruction 1, add carry, instruction 2", let alone the fact that in "our" high-end configuration, we are 'forced' to use 64bit, as we require huge contiguous buffers and having to remap high memory pages every 1ns just isn't worth the effort.

But, you seem to know everything about everything. You intellect is beyond compare.
You seem to know everything about memory split, high memory, jump buffers (AKA bounce). So who am I to educate you.
Find someone else to spam fight against. You are out of your league here.
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Old 11-30-05, 01:55 AM   #20
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Default Re: FreeBSD x64 NVIDIA DRIVER - now possible

Care to share any numbers of these I/O performance results?

Of course the 4GB/4GB patch on 32 bit i386 Linux split patch reduced I/O performance. There's a complete flush of the TLB on every single system call. That has absolutely nothing to do with what the a 3/1 or 2/2 split do. That is because the 4GB/4GB split patch is a crazy hack, the 3/1 and 2/2 are not.

You realize that a 64 bit kernel has a similar kernel/userland split, too, just higher?

Of course normally 64 bit code is faster than 32 bit, especially if you use > 32 bit integer arthmetic. Nobody questioned that. It is claims that 32 bit can never be faster which just prove the ignorance of the poster.
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Old 11-30-05, 02:17 AM   #21
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Default Re: FreeBSD x64 NVIDIA DRIVER - now possible

The few people around here running FreeBSD x64 seem to think 64 bit = double the speed, and they need to run it to get their money's worth. I suggest you educate yourself a bit before demanding nvidia waste time and money on this instead of improving the other platforms first.
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Old 11-30-05, 02:37 AM   #22
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Default Re: FreeBSD x64 NVIDIA DRIVER - now possible

If you bothered to read my original post, before going on rampage, you'd notice that I never claimed that 32bit was slower by design.
I claimed that:
A. 64bit adds additional GP registers.
B. High-memory usage (in-order to access >1GB of memory on 3/1 and >2GB on 2/2) causes a performance hit. (Though I accept, that my point could have been clearer.)

With desktop computers coming preloaded with 1GB of memory, workstation (and gaming machines) with 2GB and server with 4GB, I see little reason to use hacks (PAE) instead of using the real thing. (64bit)

Oh... and BTW, we all do 64bit "math". All file-systems uses 64bit file pointers.

As for sharing numbers, the benchmarks my workplace did before switching to 64bit belongs to them, and them alone.
However, of the top my head,
http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2114
http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2127
http://www.linuxhardware.org/article...mode=nocomment
I doubt that you'll have problems finding other credible 32bit vs. 64bit benchmarks.
Mind you, in most of these tests, 64bit beats the living out of 32bit beats with 64bit GCC optimization being years behind 32bit ones. (In my own experience, gcc 4.0 still uses the legacy GP registers [AX, etc] much more then the 'new' 64bit GP registers, so there's a large room for improvement here)

Now, if we can conclude this useless exchange...
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Old 11-30-05, 06:41 AM   #23
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Default Re: FreeBSD x64 NVIDIA DRIVER - now possible

The problem is, on my Via kt800 board I even can't get the i386 driver to work. Yes, I'm running i386 (RELASE 6.0) on an amd64 because then I can run openoffice 2 and (well, at least I hoped) the nvidia-driver. But, if I try to enable the nvidia-driver I get this dreaded message:
NVRM: AGP cannot be enabled on this combination of the AMD CPU and OS kernel
NVRM: kernel upgrade recommended.

Really, I'm not thinking running amd64 would double my system's speed, but playing a dvd with a cpu-usage of around 50% on an amd 3500+ (venice core) is a bit stupid isn't it? And no, this has got nothing todo with dma-settings, because it doesn't matter if I run it off dvd or harddisk or just a big mpeg2-file I made of a television-recording. Even playing xvid's makes it running at 50%.

Whe I'm playing a dvd on my multimedia-computer it uses about 10% cpu. This computer is based on a Sempron 2400+ and is running gentoo linux because FreeBSD doesn't support my tv-card. So it's really annoying having it using 50% cpu on your amd64, that's what the problem really is.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:17 AM   #24
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Default Re: FreeBSD x64 NVIDIA DRIVER - now possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Cracauer
Okay, they added new optimizations. And algorithms. And logarithms.

Did we actually disagree on anything? Last time I looked you were just sniping on me just for pointing out that memory above 1 GB is not slower (it isn't) and that the 2/2GB boundary (which neither FreeBSD nor Linux have) make things "slower" (which they don't).

I don't see what anything you said has to do with any of that, except that you made that claim that there is no single program running slower in 64 bit mode than 32 bit mode. If you know what a pointer size is it should be pretty obvious to you that I can easily come up with example programs that run slower. How about one of the fancy string representations that have charaters in linked lists?
I never claimed that there would not be a program running slower on 64 bit. I did say it was highly unkikely. I mostly argured with your contention that if you did not know what 64bit was, then you didn't need it. Most business level software, ie databases, image editors etc.. will greatly benefit. Also most gaming applications will see an improvement. Your average gamer has no idea what 64bit means, but the faster floating point math will definately help them see better fps, which they do know about. Therefore the only people who won't see an improvement are internet trollers and people who play solitaire all day.(okay, I am getting a little extreme here, but it does make my point)
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