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Old 11-13-05, 09:59 AM   #1
dante_uk
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Default Vista and OpenGL

I was just playing with Beta 2 of Vista. Looks pretty.

Quake3 reports this:
seta r_lastValidRenderer "OpenGL-D3D Translator"

Guess what, a blank screen, nothing rendered. Not even the menus.

Quake4 - crashes, then crashes Vista.

I'm on a GF FX5900nu
The video driver supplied was Nvidia's 75.04 alpha driver.

Alpha driver on a Beta OS - obviously stablity is not something that's going to be missing but...

If M$ stick to their plan of killing OpenGL ( again ) then Vista may finally do it. So say goodbye to all Quake3 & Doom3 engine games.
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Old 11-13-05, 10:32 AM   #2
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Default Re: Vista and OpenGL

I'm glad I made the final move to an all linux box... I see no need for me to ever go back.
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Old 11-13-05, 10:34 AM   #3
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Default Re: Vista and OpenGL

You'll still be able to play opengl based games through an emulator.
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Old 11-13-05, 12:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Vista and OpenGL

No, you'll still be able to play opengl games in vista without any kind of wrapper if you play it in a full screen.
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Old 11-13-05, 12:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: Vista and OpenGL

Alphawolf is right - you'll still be able to use an nVIDIA ICD, so long as compositing is turned off - e.g., fullscreen. It's not ideal (some of us actually like to play windowed), but it's better than nothing.
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Old 11-13-05, 03:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Vista and OpenGL

So if I drop back to Win2K style instead of the new flash style and run in fullscreen it should work?

I was trying to full screen and Quake3 did go fullscreen, but it was gray, no menus.

I'll try turning off the new default style stuff and see what happens.
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Old 11-13-05, 03:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: Vista and OpenGL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtestube
Alphawolf is right - you'll still be able to use an nVIDIA ICD, so long as compositing is turned off - e.g., fullscreen. It's not ideal (some of us actually like to play windowed), but it's better than nothing.
And it is also very well possible that future GPU's, or maybe even future drivers, will support the nvidia ICD in a windowed mode.
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Old 11-13-05, 03:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: Vista and OpenGL

I dropped back to 'Classic' style, ie win2k look.

Quake3 gives a gray screen. Ctrl-alt-del to task manger I'm able to see that it couldn't start the opengl subsystem. I deleted the config file so it could fall back to its default settings. No difference.

Quake4 crashes, no mouse after crash.

I also tried running Quake2, normally I run it at 1600x1200 OpenGL. I ran it and flashed the screen a few times then dropped to a window on the dekstop @320x200 software mode.

I also tried to run FarCry, missing dll MSVCP71.dll which is one of Microsofts standard C Runtime Libraries.

Are they aiming to release this in 2007 ?
I think the beta is being released too soon. It's no where near ready for any public(MSDN subscribers even) release.

It won't talk to normal windows networks. ( ie i couldn't find my WinXP laptop, let along the two machine I have running with Samba shares from Linux ).

I also tried installing Vista in VirtualPC 2004(an M$ product) first off it doesn't handle the virtual disks properly and you have for format NTFS first. Then the install runs fine, it looks fine too, then it finally boots into Vista problerly, with a desktop of 640x480 4bit colour!! The generic video driver doesn't handle a generic S3 type chipset, even though the install screens were higher res and higher colour depth. As a lot of software house use VirtualPC for testing products on it seems strange M$ haven't bothered doing the basics to get Vista to run.
I have virtualPC for testing, I have virtual machines running for Win98SE, Win2K, Win2003Server, Fedora Core4, Suse 9.3 & 10, Debian 3.1. All work fine, the native OS is WinXP on a laptop with 2gb memory.

So far Vista is not impressive at all, the desktop looks cool but they've changed so many little things that weren't broken, I think most people will just hit the buttons marked 'classic view' just so they can find the options they are there, hidden somewhere.

By the time Vista is released, the Linux desktop ( well KDE at least ) will be able to do all the same effects and looks just as good.

I properly try Vista again in about 6 months time, just to see if it's actually useable.
Ultimately, I'll have gone all Linux at Home long before Vista hits the streets.

My advice to anyone thinking of downloading the Vista Beta via one of the torrents available is don't bother. It's not worth the time or bandwidth. Maybe try when they reach Beta 6 or 7(I was running Beta 2).
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Old 11-13-05, 04:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Vista and OpenGL

OpenGL will be fully supported in Vista with no need of an emulator. You can't judge the final product by a beta 2 OS and a beta driver.

The only thing is that OpenGL will not work with the Direct3D compositor, so you won't be able to smoothly run OpenGL games in Windowed mode.

btw I think "classic view" is the most retarted thing MS ever put into XP and Vista. People are just lazy and don't want to learn how to use a new, more efficent, UI. They should force people to use the new UI and not provide the option to go back.
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Old 11-13-05, 04:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Vista and OpenGL

Thats what they do with Office 12. Office 12 has the biggest GUI change I have ever seen from one version to the next. There is NO classic view, and to be honost, thats they way it should have been done.

Its way more efficient, but some people will not like it because they are not used to it. They hold back the whole evolution into a better GUI.
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Old 11-13-05, 04:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: Vista and OpenGL

Quote:
Originally Posted by jAkUp
Its way more efficient, but some people will not like it because they are not used to it. They hold back the whole evolution into a better GUI.
exactly, when I used to work in IT and we did the big upgrade to XP, people gave me so much hell becasue I outright refused to switch the theme back to classic view. A week later no complaining becasue people had gotten used to it and found it was actually more efficent. Who woulda thunk!
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Old 11-13-05, 04:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: Vista and OpenGL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda_fan
OpenGL will be fully supported in Vista with no need of an emulator. You can't judge the final product by a beta 2 OS and a beta driver.
Agreed, that's why I say they've release it too early. Just gives a bad impression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda_fan
The only thing is that OpenGL will not work with the Direct3D compositor, so you won't be able to smoothly run OpenGL games in Windowed mode.
Obviously at the moment even full screen is running through the "OpenGL-D3D Translator" - this has got to change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda_fan
btw I think "classic view" is the most retarted thing MS ever put into XP and Vista. People are just lazy and don't want to learn how to use a new, more efficent, UI. They should force people to use the new UI and not provide the option to go back.
I'd agree, if the new UI was actually better. I use a number of OS's and although it pains me to say it and is proberly only because it's the OS I've used the longest, Windows is generally easy to use, things can be set so it's simple to see a list of files and find what you want. Vista changes too many things and not for the better.
A Simple example: In XP - I want to run a program, I know the folder that contains the .exe so I click on the folder, there are lots more files than fit on the screen(detail view) so I click on the 'Type' heading, now 'Applications' are all at the top and I can see the .exe I want.
In Vista - the sort sequence changed, but it's not listing alphabetically anymore, I stared at it for awhile and clicked the heading a number of times but no, it's not sorting it to anything obvious, I had to scroll the file list down about halfway to find the .exe I wanted.(I'm back in XP at the mo' so I can't take another longer look at this, and why should I? this is suppose to be a step forward. Easier to use not more complicated).

This is a classic example of 'fixing' something that isn't broke!

A lot of people switch XP's startmenu back to classic, why? because the classic view is simple and does exactly what people need it to do. ( no I don't have a desktop full of icons, I have 3 icons, MyComp, MyNet, WasteBin, I use OdjectDock )

For me the XP-style startmenu isn't better, it gives me nothing I didn't already have.
All it seems to do is give me icons for programs I never use(Windows Tour!!!).
If it was better or had something useful on it I'd use it. As it is I'll stick to ObjectDock and shortcut-keys.

The change in Office is mainly cometic isn't it? I've only recently installed the latest version on my new laptop. Not actually used it much yet. I hope the main menus and toolbar items are still in same place!
(actually I've also installed OpenOffice2 so I might stick with that :P )

I work for a software house and I know hard sometimes when you come up with a great new feature and release it and no bastard uses it, or worse complains you've change too much. The new product my company is trying to push has a much better gui than the previous version, we're talking Win95 compared to WinXP, users saying it looks so much better but then fret about other little changes.

I agree we should be driving people forward to a better GUI, but if M$ f*@k this up, they're going to remove one reason NOT to move Linux - Learning curve of the GUI - because Vista will be so different it will feel like a completely new OS ( which it is of couse ), so if you're switching OS why not switch to Linux, the learning curve will be the same and Linux is Free!!!
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Gigabyte S478 Intel 845E / P4 2.2Ghz / 1GB DDR / GF FX 5900 128MB (400/850) / SB Live! Player 5.1 / XP Pro sp1 (DirectX9.0c) / Suse 8.2
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