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Old 11-17-05, 12:01 AM   #1
mickyg
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Default 5900xt - AGP card with PCI-e bios

I just bought an ELSA FX935 video card new out here but it shows PCX 935 during boot up. Elsa's product lineup includes a PCI-e version of the 5900xt and the product name is pcx935 as my bios shows.

One would assume this wouldn't work but given the fact that the PCI-e version just has an AGP to PCI-e bridge chip, I'd assume the architecture would be the same. In my case, the card works but I have a few "weird" issues that I'd like to resolve by flashing to an AGP bios.

Firstly, the card shows temp, which is good. However, no overclocking is possible. I cannot even underclock actually! Anytime I "test" the new settings, it fails. I'm assuming this is because the wrong card is being detected by the driver.

Any of you bios modders out there have any ideas? I've attempted to reflash the bios but am getting some I/O errors when I try to save the old on or flash a new on (more details later when I'm home to copy them down).

Last edited by mickyg; 11-23-05 at 01:04 AM. Reason: Unclear title
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Old 11-17-05, 05:09 AM   #2
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Default Re: 5900xt with PCI-e bios

I managed to force a flash with an older version of NVflash and an Albatron 5900xt bios. However, still cannot use the auto overclock feature or successfully validate any frequency (lower or higher). Anyone else ever experienced this?
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Old 11-17-05, 06:12 AM   #3
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Default Re: 5900xt with PCI-e bios

Several possibilities that I've considered so far in this little mystery. First off, I tested the card with an actual 3d app (3dmark2k3) just to make sure the driver wasn't just freaking out and not letting me adjust frequencies for some non-critical reason. I found that there was actually a great deal of texture tearing so the driver seems to be reporting reality - that there are rendering errors.

So here's the possibilities at the moment:

1. The driver is screwy (doubtful as I've used 3 different builds 7x to current 8x versions)
2. The bios is messed up (also doubtful as 2 different ones showed same results)
3. The video card is faulty
4. The motherboard (agp slot in particular) is bad

I'm leaning toward the motherboard actually. I can test the card in another system and put that possibility to rest in the next 24 hours. I think the mobo might be at fault because after I had my little "mishap" with the old card (the 5900xt is a replacement for an evga 5900se that met it's end), I foolishly put it back into the system to see how bad the damage was.

I should probably explain this a bit better:
I had an old 5900xt and put ramsinks on it. Later, when I bought an nv silencer3 (deal too good to pass up) I had to remove the ramsinks. Turns out my homebrew thermal paste (arctic alumina + epoxy) was too good and instead of the sink coming off, the memory chip came with it.

Anyway, after I put the card back in and realised it would never live again, I took it out and thought about how I'd replace it. In the meantime, I put my other card (a 6600GT) in the system and got no video. I passed it off as a fluke but now I think it might be that the AGP slot is somehow damaged. Perhaps I've overloaded a power or data circuit when I plugged the damaged card in?

I'll report back tomorrow.
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Old 11-17-05, 11:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: 5900xt with PCI-e bios

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickyg
I just bought an ELSA FX935 video card new out here but it shows PCX 935 during boot up. Elsa's product lineup includes a PCI-e version of the 5900xt and the product name is pcx935 as my bios shows.

One would assume this wouldn't work but given the fact that the PCI-e version just has an AGP to PCI-e bridge chip, I'd assume the architecture would be the same. In my case, the card works but I have a few "weird" issues that I'd like to resolve by flashing to an AGP bios.

Firstly, the card shows temp, which is good. However, no overclocking is possible. I cannot even underclock actually! Anytime I "test" the new settings, it fails. I'm assuming this is because the wrong card is being detected by the driver.

Any of you bios modders out there have any ideas? I've attempted to reflash the bios but am getting some I/O errors when I try to save the old on or flash a new on (more details later when I'm home to copy them down).
Because the PCX5900xt and FX5900xt share the same gpu chip, you should have few problems flashing and using a 5900 agp bios !

Also, lots of nvidia vga cards have coolbits/rivatuner overclocking issues when using many of the newer drivers. Never appears as a problem when using overclocking tools like powerstrip.

And the problem is mainly resolved by enabling the "DisableInternalClockTest" from within rivatuner ----> At the lower left side of the Rivatuner "Power User" tab, select 'open database' and load the Rivatuner.rtd file. Now at the "Overclocking" sub section, you simply Enable the "DisableInternalClockTest" option by double clicking and entering a '1'
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Intel P4 3.2 @ 3.85GHz (ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe)
BFG 6800GS (16x1,6vp) @ 300/430/1200.

Driver, 82.12 :-
Aquamark3, 75039
Codecreatures1, 90.8
3Dmark05 v120, 6195
3Dmark03 v360, 14334
3Dmark06 v102, 2949
3Dmark2001se v330, 23793.
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Old 11-17-05, 05:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: 5900xt with PCI-e bios

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmor
Because the PCX5900xt and FX5900xt share the same gpu chip, you should have few problems flashing and using a 5900 agp bios !

Also, lots of nvidia vga cards have coolbits/rivatuner overclocking issues when using many of the newer drivers. Never appears as a problem when using overclocking tools like powerstrip.

And the problem is mainly resolved by enabling the "DisableInternalClockTest" from within rivatuner ----> At the lower left side of the Rivatuner "Power User" tab, select 'open database' and load the Rivatuner.rtd file. Now at the "Overclocking" sub section, you simply Enable the "DisableInternalClockTest" option by double clicking and entering a '1'
Good advice, except that I noticed artifacting when running default speeds in 3dmark03. I think there really is a problem there and the driver is simply doing its job in checking stability. Only in this case, instability is at ANY core/mem frequency!

I'll put the card in another PC tonight (or tomorrow) and see what happens.
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Old 11-18-05, 12:53 PM   #6
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Default Re: 5900xt with PCI-e bios

There are many people who have had no problems using PCI-E type 5900xt cards with AGP bioses. You just need to search around !

For example, check out the thread linked below for an instance of a successfull flashing with a 5950u AGP bios.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....hlight=pcx5900
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Intel P4 3.2 @ 3.85GHz (ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe)
BFG 6800GS (16x1,6vp) @ 300/430/1200.

Driver, 82.12 :-
Aquamark3, 75039
Codecreatures1, 90.8
3Dmark05 v120, 6195
3Dmark03 v360, 14334
3Dmark06 v102, 2949
3Dmark2001se v330, 23793.
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Old 11-20-05, 07:02 AM   #7
mickyg
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Default Re: 5900xt with PCI-e bios

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmor
There are many people who have had no problems using PCI-E type 5900xt cards with AGP bioses. You just need to search around !

For example, check out the thread linked below for an instance of a successfull flashing with a 5950u AGP bios.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....hlight=pcx5900
Jimmor,

I don't think I've accurately described the situation here. I got the card and it already had a PCI-e bios on it, which makes me think the card was "played with" before I purchased it. Not surprising, considering I bought it from a shop that specialises in old (sometimes ex-demo) hardware.

Much of this is not even relevent anymore though. I was finally able to test the card in another system and it does the same thing. The card's definitely messed up. If you let it run long enough in the generic opengl flower screensaver, built into windows, it'll crash! Definitely a screwy card. I'm going to see how quickly I can get it replaced tomorrow.
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Old 11-20-05, 07:12 AM   #8
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Default Re: 5900xt with PCI-e bios

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickyg
Jimmor,

I don't think I've accurately described the situation here. I got the card and it already had a PCI-e bios on it, which makes me think the card was "played with" before I purchased it. Not surprising, considering I bought it from a shop that specialises in old (sometimes ex-demo) hardware.

Much of this is not even relevent anymore though. I was finally able to test the card in another system and it does the same thing. The card's definitely messed up. If you let it run long enough in the generic opengl flower screensaver, built into windows, it'll crash! Definitely a screwy card. I'm going to see how quickly I can get it replaced tomorrow.
Being a pci-e type card, I would expect it to have a pci-e type bios. So what I was suggesting is you should be able to try a AGP type bios.

Of course you could also just try another manufacturers pci-e bios ?

However, since is a new purchase, it is probably best to take it, and your problem, back to the shop !
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Intel P4 3.2 @ 3.85GHz (ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe)
BFG 6800GS (16x1,6vp) @ 300/430/1200.

Driver, 82.12 :-
Aquamark3, 75039
Codecreatures1, 90.8
3Dmark05 v120, 6195
3Dmark03 v360, 14334
3Dmark06 v102, 2949
3Dmark2001se v330, 23793.
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Old 11-20-05, 08:01 PM   #9
mickyg
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Default Re: 5900xt with PCI-e bios

Aha, that's what left out! It's an AGP card, not a PCI-e card. That's the "weirdness" I've been talking about all along. A production AGP card with a PCI-e bios on it - sounds fishy to me. Which is why I thought someone had played with it before I ended up with it.
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Old 11-21-05, 06:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: 5900xt with PCI-e bios

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickyg
Aha, that's what left out! It's an AGP card, not a PCI-e card. That's the "weirdness" I've been talking about all along. A production AGP card with a PCI-e bios on it - sounds fishy to me. Which is why I thought someone had played with it before I ended up with it.
Ahhhhhhhhhh its an AGP card, in that case it should definately be flashed with a AGP type bios !

However, before playing around flashing with different bioses it is important to know what overclocks you get with original bios. And to give yourself a better chance at overclocking, I suggest you use an older but known to be stable driver like 53.03 ?

But remember what I also stated about coolbits or rivatuner overclocking ----> it is best to disable the internal clock testing functions first !
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The more I know, the more I know I don't know

Intel P4 3.2 @ 3.85GHz (ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe)
BFG 6800GS (16x1,6vp) @ 300/430/1200.

Driver, 82.12 :-
Aquamark3, 75039
Codecreatures1, 90.8
3Dmark05 v120, 6195
3Dmark03 v360, 14334
3Dmark06 v102, 2949
3Dmark2001se v330, 23793.
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Old 11-21-05, 06:08 PM   #11
mickyg
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Default Re: 5900xt with PCI-e bios

Ok, here's the quickest rundown I could come up with:

1. Got card, installed it
2. Installed drivers (7x.xx series)
3. Installed Riva tuner to enable overclocking (there are easier ways but this was quick)
4. attempted auto overclock from Nvidia control panel - failed immediately as in no overclock possible.
5. attempted to underclock core in lower increments but failed EVERY time
6. attempted same with mem but failed EVERY time
7. ran 3dmark03 with default clocks and got horrible graphical glitches
8. reflashed card with AGP specific bios
9. EXACTLY THE SAME RESULTS AS ABOVE

So the original thread about wondering if this is a bios issue appears to be invalid - both bios versions did the same thing (PCI-e and AGP).

So unless someone has some other idias, this is sounding like a trip back to the vendor is in order.

I should also state that the previous card in this system was an EVGA 5900se and it worked perfectly with the same drivers until it had an unfortunate accident.
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Old 11-21-05, 07:42 PM   #12
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Default Re: 5900xt with PCI-e bios

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickyg
Ok, here's the quickest rundown I could come up with:

1. Got card, installed it
2. Installed drivers (7x.xx series)
3. Installed Riva tuner to enable overclocking (there are easier ways but this was quick)
4. attempted auto overclock from Nvidia control panel - failed immediately as in no overclock possible.
5. attempted to underclock core in lower increments but failed EVERY time
6. attempted same with mem but failed EVERY time
7. ran 3dmark03 with default clocks and got horrible graphical glitches
8. reflashed card with AGP specific bios
9. EXACTLY THE SAME RESULTS AS ABOVE

So the original thread about wondering if this is a bios issue appears to be invalid - both bios versions did the same thing (PCI-e and AGP).

So unless someone has some other idias, this is sounding like a trip back to the vendor is in order.

I should also state that the previous card in this system was an EVGA 5900se and it worked perfectly with the same drivers until it had an unfortunate accident.
As previously posted, the inability to overclock with either driver coolbits or rivatuner is completely down to an issue with an internal clock test; especially with 7xxxx series drivers and up !

However on your graphic glitches problem: since your setup worked ok with a 5900se, it should obviously work just as well with a 5900xt, unless,

1) you changed something else other than the vga card

2) you didn't properly clean out old drivers first (best tool is drivercleaner pro v1.2).

3) by coincidence something else has gone wrong with your setup

4) your new 5900xt is actually faulty !!! The kind of graphical fault you are seeing is usually down to something wrong with a memory chip(s). But can also however sometimes just be down to people pulling at them or splashing too much AS5 over or around them. But if this is not the case with your card, then maybe it should simply be taken as a faulty new card. Especially since it shows same faults in another computer ----> so take it back !

5) Also, you say you managed to force a flash ----> since flashing a bios is very easy, maybe you have a bad flash ?

Just for interest, below are the flashing commands for any FX59xxxx series card using nvflash versions 4.41 and 5.13:-

Flash the bios in DOS using nvflash.exe v4.41

nvflash -r (removes any protection)

nvflash -b ORIGBIOS.ROM (saves original bios)

nvflash -u -p -f BIOSNAME.ROM (flash new bios file)

And note; the -u -p command switches will ensure a flash regardless of any ID mismatches, so always just select to continue.


Or,

Flash the bios in DOS using nvflash.exe v5.13

nvflash -r (removes any protection)

nvflash -b ORIGBIOS.ROM (saves original bios)

nvflash -4 -5 -6 BIOSNAME.ROM (flash new bios file)

And note; the -4 -5 -6 command switches will force a flash regardless of any ID mismatches, so always just select to continue.



But also because of DOS filename restrictions, "ORIGBIOS.ROM" and "BIOSNAME.ROM" must have no more than 8 char's in first part of filename and no more than 3 char's in extender part, otherwise DOS will not recognise the command.

__________________
The more I know, the more I know I don't know

Intel P4 3.2 @ 3.85GHz (ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe)
BFG 6800GS (16x1,6vp) @ 300/430/1200.

Driver, 82.12 :-
Aquamark3, 75039
Codecreatures1, 90.8
3Dmark05 v120, 6195
3Dmark03 v360, 14334
3Dmark06 v102, 2949
3Dmark2001se v330, 23793.
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