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Old 11-25-05, 07:23 AM   #1
joffe
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Default User Survey: Help us make nvidia.com better

If we give some constructive criticism while filling out the survey, maybe the Linux community can make their voice heard higher up in the food chain at NVIDIA...

User Survey at the NVIDIA software download page
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Old 11-25-05, 12:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: User Survey: Help us make nvidia.com better

errmm, sorry, but this survey is _just_ about the homepage...
not about driver quality(yeah, all your constructive criticism will go to /dev/null!)

So, if you really want to _impress_ nvidia... Then you must be $BIGCOMPANY with loads of quadros... then suddenly someone reads and answers your bugreports...
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Old 11-25-05, 01:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: User Survey: Help us make nvidia.com better

Exactly. Why don't NVIDIA host the forums so that I can find the information I want at the same place where I download the freaking drivers? Not to sound harsh, but how can I trust the information being posted here?
Like it says on the driver download page:

For an external resource on Linux topics, visit the discussion forum at nvnews.net

So, where are their local resources?
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Old 11-25-05, 03:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: User Survey: Help us make nvidia.com better

Well, look around "netllama, zander, Andy Mecham, two others" all are employed by nvidia... (that's all about the quality of the _informations_)

also, take a look at: http://developer.nvidia.com/page/home.html
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Old 11-25-05, 03:41 PM   #5
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Arrow NVIDIA doesn't provide end-user support

Quote:
Originally Posted by joffe
Why don't NVIDIA host the forums ... So, where are their local resources?
Have you ever considered looking at the NVIDIA.com forums?
http://forums.nvidia.com/

Note that NVIDIA doesn't provide end-user support even on their own forums. See http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=boardrules
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia.com forums rules
This site serves as a venue through which users can discuss, ask questions, share, and learn from each other. ... Although the site is occasionally moderated by NVIDIA employees, it is intended only as a way for visitors to get answers from other visitors, and not to get answers from NVIDIA.
The bold text is my emphasis.
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Old 11-25-05, 03:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: User Survey: Help us make nvidia.com better

I know about the moderators and appreciate their work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkey
Ok... In what way is that related to my graphics card not working?
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Old 11-25-05, 03:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: User Survey: Help us make nvidia.com better

Quote:
Originally Posted by joffe
In what way is that related to my graphics card not working?
In what way is NVIDIA related to your graphics card not working? If your video card isn't working, contact the OEM that manufactured the card (e.g. ASUS, MSI, EVGA, etc).

When your SONY computer stops working, you contact SONY, not the maker of the resistors, capactors, or silicon. Imagine Intel's response if you contacted Intel tech support about a malfunctioning SONY Pentium-based computer. NVIDIA is reasonable to act the same.
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Old 11-25-05, 03:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: User Survey: Help us make nvidia.com better

well... what do you think lies behind this login?

nvdeveloper login ?

edit: @ricercar

well, this is some kind of ping-pong... OEM says it's nvidia's fault, because it works with windows... nvidia says it's OEM fault, because it works with our own hardware...
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Old 11-25-05, 04:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: User Survey: Help us make nvidia.com better

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricercar
In what way is NVIDIA related to your graphics card not working? If your video card isn't working, contact the OEM that manufactured the card (e.g. ASUS, MSI, EVGA, etc).

When your SONY computer stops working, you contact SONY, not the maker of the resistors, capactors, or silicon. Imagine Intel's response if you contacted Intel tech support about a malfunctioning SONY Pentium-based computer. NVIDIA is reasonable to act the same.
Relax. If I had been complaining about a dead graphics card or tv-out not working you'd have a point. However the only way of getting the graphics adapter in my notebook to work is through nvidia's own linux driver even if I would like to have it compiled by myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkey
well... what do you think lies behind this login?
Well, I'm not an industry developer so that link does not pertain to me . I don't even think I'd pass the application test if I tried...
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Old 11-25-05, 06:01 PM   #10
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Arrow My car doesn't fly even if I put wings on it. This is GM's fault?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joffe
If I had been complaining about a dead graphics card or tv-out not working you'd have a point
It appears to me that you were compaining about your graphics card not working.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joffe
Ok... In what way is that related to my graphics card not working?
I have a point anyway, but it seems you don't. With every post you change your focus.
1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joffe
maybe the Linux community can make their voice heard higher up in the food chain at NVIDIA
2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joffe
Ok... In what way is that related to my graphics card not working?
3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joffe
the only way of getting the graphics adapter in my notebook to work is through nvidia's own linux driver
Actually we can safely assume the graphics adapter in your notebook is supported and works with the bundled Windows drivers. But we can also assume you want to run a Linux OS that's not supported by the notebooks' OEM. This is not NVIDIA's problem, nor the OEM's. It's yours for buying hardware with an assumed support for Linux that's not guaranteed by the OEM vendor.

You want Linux support, buy a notebook with explicit Linux support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkey
well, this is some kind of ping-pong... OEM says it's nvidia's fault, because it works with windows... nvidia says it's OEM fault, because it works with our own hardware...
To address the original post, and this one, make Linux support the OEM's problem. Return the non-Linux supporting product for your money back, AND TELL THEM WHY.

Enough people returning an item for lack of Linux support, and the OEMS will make demands for Linux support from NVIDIA. OEMs cancelling deals for want of Linux support will be heard farther up the NVIDIA food chain than any of us consumers can manage with email to Vivoli or Jen Hsun.

NVIDIA doesn't listen to end users, they listen to only the OEMs who buy their chips. Unless you make Linux support NVIDIA's problem through financial incentive of more OEM deals, the end-user voice won't be heard.

Consider the arrogance of a company that hosts an end-user forum, yet has an official written company policy to FIRE employees for posting on boards. Get real. NVIDIA doesn't care about the end-user. You won't get genuine end-user support form NVIDIA until they change their business model and corporate culture.
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Old 11-25-05, 06:28 PM   #11
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Default Re: User Survey: Help us make nvidia.com better

Yeah, you're right, but what are a handful returned systems('cause of Linux support lack), compared to thousand of _successfully_ sold ones? "not enough!"

so... as you know in the laptop/desktop market, most vendors like ASUS/MSI/GigaByte don't give **** for free operating systems... it's enough if windows runs... (Asus' K8N-DL!!!)

OT: correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't nvidia also _make_ "refernce designs" for thier gfx-cards and boards? And what about the software + driver?
...
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Old 11-25-05, 06:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: User Survey: Help us make nvidia.com better

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkey
OT: correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't nvidia also _make_ "refernce designs" for thier gfx-cards and boards? And what about the software + driver?...
Yes, they do. Most OEMs just put their logo on the reference design and drivers, instead of paying their own employees. Companies like ASUS and MSI put some design work into their coolers, and sometimes even the PCB. Yet most NVIDIA-based cards look identical except for the OEM sticker on the fansink, because the reference design is the cheapest path to market.

This is true for drivers, too. Even Windows drivers branded by MSI et al. are basically repackaged NVIDIA software with OEM logo and an overclocking tab. The whole reason coolbits is there is for OEM overclock utilities. It's just hidden in the downloadable drivers.

Right now, no hardware company cares enough to demand more than checkbox Linux support, so NVIDIA doesn't have to write better Linux drivers. If a company like Redhat takes over NVIDIA Linux drivers like Apple does for Macintosh drivers, then, and only then, will we see worthy Linux drivers.

A corporate Linux developer must sign an NDA and keep the source code secret in a way that NVIDIA can sue if the code goes public, or it ain't gonna happen. When I worked for NVIDIA, they wouldn't let a complete register spec go to ANY hardware developer, even under NDA. The OEM had to request a specific register, to cure a specific problem, and we'd give them that register.

NVIDIA is constantly in fear that they'll lose an edge because competitors will see too much under the hood from exposure of the driver source code. So we'll never see an open source Linux Driver from NVIDIA. There's too much proprietary information; NVIDIA won't let their IP go open source; it will always be a closed/compiled driver.
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