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Old 01-15-03, 03:56 PM   #25
junkieclown
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I seem to be able to run OpenGL screensavers without crashes.

PS: Left opengl screensavers going all night. Came back to a crashed box.

One tuxracer level also has the power to crash the system with GF4 ti-4200: Nebula.
It seems that as long as I run tuxracer in a window like glxgears and chromium (default), then it does't crash. But "nebula" usually aborts when I run it this way. You can't get any penguin and the POV just stutters to the right then Tuxracer aborts, Now if you inisist on jamming some keyboard input into the program before it crashes it might crash the whole system with an Algae-vision crash screen.

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Old 01-15-03, 04:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
JunkieClown :
I seem to be able to run OpenGL screensavers without crashes.
Yep, I though so. I've made them run for a whole night whithout crashing.

But suddenly as I was watching a film (Requiem for a dream, ironically),
the screensaver started and some time later -> FREEZE.

Tomorrow, I'll get the GeForce2 from a friend of mine , and I'll test that card.
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Old 01-15-03, 05:04 PM   #27
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I've tried two GF2's --an MX200 (which is mine) and a asus gf2 Ti (also called GTS i think)
Both work fine using latest nvidia driver and kernel 2.4.20 (with ac2 patch applied - which may have no bearing).

While testing the GF2 ti in my Asus A7V333 system, I had the chance to test the gainward GF4 ti-4200 in a SiS735 chipset motherboard (ECS K7S5a)
It also crashed using default NvAGP settings --but up until it crashed, it effen flew.
That's because SiS735 is a supported chipset of the Nvidia gart driver under Linux and it was using AGP 4x for real.

KT333 however, is not supported by nvidia's gart driver.
No one using KT333 boards has seen their GF4 running at 4x in Linux yet.
Half their investment is flushed down the toilet by this non-support.

I won't try to explain Nvidia's reasoning. There aren't that many boards that use the SiS735.
KT333 boards are legion, and many more people have them.
This makes no sense.
This sucks.

Now, what I'm wondering is not what another GForce card will do, but what is ATI's Radeon Linux support like?
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Old 01-15-03, 05:45 PM   #28
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Now, what I'm wondering is not what another GForce card will do, but what is ATI's Radeon Linux support like?
Yes, me too. Me brother - who is running windows only - is thinking about getting a new video card.

Maybe, he'll get mine and I'll get a card which is really supported under linux (i still wonder which one).
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Old 01-18-03, 01:26 PM   #29
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so in conclusion.... have we come to a consensus that this is a problem with the KT333 chipset and GeForce4 Ti 4200 cards?

I guess we could improve our chances of getting this issue addressed in the next driver if we all write a bug report to nvidia.

Tom
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Old 01-18-03, 02:30 PM   #30
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I don't know ---I think so.
It really seems like, if there is supposed to be support for KT333 under the umbrella of Nvidia KT266 support, then it's not really working for all kinds of KT333 boards. (A kt333 chipset is in many ways similar to kt266. It has the same pinout or whatever, and i think in some aspects beyond the agp interface, kt333 support is really an extension of kt266 support... But it doesn't seem that linux or nvidia support for kt333 is completely solid. There are some quirks that aren't being caught )

If the Nvidia driver is supposed to work under Linux's generic gart driver, then it's not stable on all Kt333's . My GF2 works with that combination, ( nvidia glx / agpgart) but my GF4 does not (for more than about 15 seconds).

If there was a problem with the motherboard and agpgart, then my GF2 should be unstable too. But it's not. Both cards have the same 4x agp bandwidth. If there was a big problem with my Gainward ti-4200 then it should not have worked OK in windows. But it did.

If it's a question of drive strength, (say the GF4 requires much more juice than GF2) well I have not encountered any guide for dealing with that. You aren't messing with agp drive strength and your Ti-4200 works fine in W2K.
The Asus A7V333 was designed to be manufactured with an AGP-Pro option. Seems like the engineers who did that work would have also been sensitive to questions of having enough current to drive non-AGP-pro cards as well on the normal AGP models.

You have a top quality powersupply and so do I. We both bought 50 watts over what is usually considered "Plenty". It might be an electrical problem but that just seems ruled out: the Asus engineers would have to have just completely messed up. I doubt that. The reason I go further and deny it as well as doubting it: W2K worked fine with your GF4, and also because my GF4 card crashed exactly the same way that I'm used to (Algae-vision) on a 300 watt SiS735 based Mandrake system using NvAGP 3. (and that chipset is supposedly supported- so it was definitely using the Nvidia gart). However, it did not crash on the same SiS735 system using the ever-so stable Windows98.

Both systems would have to be electrically flawed-- but only under Linux, not Windows.
The first half of that proposition is improbable and second half makes no sense; so it is not an electrical problem.

Is it a problem with interrupts? Not in the basic sense. I have the nvidia card on an irq all by itself and I can see it gets irq11... The GF2 also uses irq11 and does not crash. There is some question in my mind about the VIA irq router which does not "take" irq 11 in a persistent way, but I think does use it. I have no idea what it really does besides probably reassigning interrupts to devices and sharing them when needed. The same motherboard settings seem stable on SiS735 and your AsusA7V333 using Windows. The same BIOS settings and kernel on my Asus are stable using a GForce2 .
WHat can I conclude? There is a problem with IRQ routing in Linux kernel 2.4.20-ac2, but that it only shows up using a GF4 not a GF2 ? And when used with a different kernel, on a different chipset (non VIA board) produces the same kind of crash with the Gforce4 ....
Irq routing in Linux doesn't seem to be the problem, either.

Then there is the whole issue of the GF4 appearing to use agpgart more or less stably when the opengl applications are running in windows (stably compared to my fullscreen crashes which happen in mere seconds).
If there was something screwey at the hardware or BIOS level wouldn't glxgears just crash the system too, like fullscreen tuxracer or Q3 ?

The constant thread in all those variables is the Nvidia device driver, the TI-4200 and crashing Linux. Looking at the Gainward Windows installation software, basically it just installs Nvidia's Detonator drivers without even renaming/rebranding them as "Gainward device driver software". I haven't confirmed that this Detonator driver makes the GF4 stable on my Asus board ( I'd have to defile my own system with a Windose installation!) but it sure looks like the problem is that the Nvidia Unifried Driver works well in Windows, but not so swell in Linux.

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Old 01-18-03, 05:06 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by junkieclown
No one using KT333 boards has seen their GF4 running at 4x in Linux yet.
Except, apparently, me:

Code:
[bilbo@beta bilbo]$ cat /proc/driver/nvidia/agp/host-bridge 
Host Bridge:     Via Apollo Pro KT266 
Fast Writes:     Supported
SBA:             Supported
AGP Rates:       4x 2x 1x 
Registers:       0x1f000217:0x00000314
[bilbo@beta bilbo]$ cat /proc/driver/nvidia/agp/status      
Status:          Enabled
Driver:          AGPGART
AGP Rate:        4x
Fast Writes:     Enabled
SBA:             Enabled
This is a KT333, like I've said before. I'm using agpgart, though (kernel 2.4.19, again).

AFAICT, the KT333 is just a KT266 that supports faster DDR memory (DDR333, PC2700, instead of DDR266, PC2100), which is why the PCI IDs are all the same, and the kernel detects it as a KT266. But I'm not positive on that, I haven't seen schematics.
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Old 01-19-03, 05:38 PM   #32
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Ok, so this is basically a "me too" post - just so you know there are more people out there with the same problems.

There was a couple of threads a month or two ago describing exactly the same thing. (I did a search but I couldn't find it again.) They also exhausted most possibilites and couldn't come up with a solution.

I have a SiS735 (ECS) and a KT266A (MSI) board. Both running RH7.3 with latest RH kernels. A Gainward GF4 Ti 4200 will run without problems on the KT266A, but will flicker and hang on the SiS735 every time. Both a Quadro2 and a GF2 MX card runs without a hint of a problem. Using WinXP everything also runs fine.

The hang will occur whether I run 3D applications or not - it merely increases the chance it'll happen sooner.

And yes I've gone through all the AGP settings, BIOS settings, driver versions, kernel versions etc. etc, but to no avail.

I have a chance borrowing a Quadro4 card next week - just to try...
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Old 01-25-03, 12:17 PM   #33
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I have been able to try the Ti-4200 (Gainward) on a MSI-KT3Ultra kt333 based motherboard with Mandrake8.2 and nvidia 1.0-4191.
This produces the same crash as on the ecsK7S5a SiS735 based board and the Asus Kt333 m'board (a7v333).
There were no irq conflicts for the Ti4200 card.
The Geforce 2 titanium card works fine.

I have a feeling like i do more testing of Nvidia's Linux driver than they are doing.
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Old 01-25-03, 01:07 PM   #34
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Update: 2.4.20 with -preempt works also on my hardware.

junkieclown -- have you tried 3123? There's a remote possibility that that might help... What I see as different between our setups (your KT333, at least) is:

Manufacturer of the card itself (mine's an MSI)

Manufacturer of the motherboard (Biostar POS)

Distro (LFS hybrid, but it did work a while back on Mandrake 8.2, IIRC that was 3123 or 2960 though)

Driver version.
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Old 01-25-03, 01:38 PM   #35
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i tried 3123 with the asusa7v333 with no change except that the color of my 'crash screen' was a little different.
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Old 01-25-03, 06:21 PM   #36
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OK, so scratch driver version off that list...

Want to try 2.4.20, without -ac2, and with -preempt, and try that? That version was different, too... I don't think it would matter a ton, but maybe...

ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kerne...pt-kernel/v2.4

If that works, then the difference is either LFS (well, distro, I should say), or the manufacturer of the various boards...

:-/
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