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Old 08-12-02, 01:23 AM   #1
Typedef Enum
 
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Default Post your LCD experiences

Let me make this a little brief until I get a little more time...

As I have mentioned on a few occasions, I'm using the Apple 22" Cinema. Overall, I really like the thing; however, the gaming experience has been a little more sour over time. The quality, in some ways, masks the performance.

I can honestly say that the issue wasn't so much in ghosting, as you typically see reported. In the end, I did some more digging and found out that the Apple display uses the LG 22" panel, and the 'official' specs place the response time around 60 ms. If you do the math, this translates to about 17 FPS (max). If you're new to LCD concepts, the display doesn't have a "refresh rate," like CRT's. Instead, you want to look @ the amount of time it takes the transistors to change their state, and this boils down to response time.

So, if the response time is 60 ms, theoretically, the display is only capable of delivering 17 frames per second...despite the fact that the system/3D card can pump out, say, 200 FPS.

The LCD that I just bought has been given rave reviews by a lot of users, particularly as it relates to gaming. Again, if you believe the specs, the 25 ms refresh rate would translate to around 40 FPS, which is @ least in the neighborhood of acceptable performance.

I'm expecting to receive the thing in the mail by Tuesday (hell, I hope it comes tomorrow!), so I will update the thread with my initial impressions.

Last edited by Typedef Enum; 08-12-02 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 08-12-02, 03:40 AM   #2
ascully
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I use a KDS RAD-5 LCD display as my second monitor in a duel desktop setup. Its great for this use but I would never use it as my main display thats for sure.

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Old 08-12-02, 04:04 AM   #3
Typedef Enum
 
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Interesting...I have heard some decent things about the KDS displays.

Althought the size is obviously a factor, how has it been for gaming?

I think this is (duh!) the thing that's most difficult to put a finger on. With CRT's, if the display looks good on the desktop, you can pretty much figure the same will hold true when gaming. With LCD's, that's obviously totally untrue. I have seen many a LCD that looks fantastic on the desktop, only to totally suck when playing a game.

A very good thread(s) over @ ArsTechnica involves this very thing...LCD -> Gaming. As I continued to read as much as I could find on the net, it became utterly clear that there has really been a massively low amount of emphasis on LCD reviews. Anandtech has even stated this very thing, so I'm hopeful that the lowering cost will allow for more reviews.

The Toms's Hardware review was particularly bad simply because they used too many shotty LCD's, many of which are pretty old...
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Old 08-12-02, 04:08 AM   #4
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I actually love the KDS screen for desktop work and as the second monitor but it totally sucks for gaming. Black isnt black its a kinda grey color and in a dark level on a FPS its totally impossible to play with.

I really recommend it as a second monitor though for more desktop space its cool
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Old 08-12-02, 05:54 AM   #5
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I have had a 14" toshiba LCD, as a notebook, and I can honestly say it wasnt the gpu in the card making Doom look bad, it is the lack of pixel changing speed on the display.

As for the Apple 22", I have seen graphic design work, such as photoshop, and it looks...great. Unless its in any ambient light area (like a normal workspace for instance) and then you have to *adjust* the settings, beef them up, like any LCD. The SGI f220 below is possibly the most CAD oriented LCD, just from the fact its Silicon Graphics catering to its super high end user base. I would like to see how it performs.










Plasma sounds more promising as these displays are clear in all lighting conditions.
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Old 08-12-02, 06:49 AM   #6
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I was in the same exact spot as you Typedef Enum. I had a nice monitor (sony fw900 24') but the 16:9 resolution left 99% of my games all stretched out weird cause there are very few playable HD resolutions. So I researched for about 2 weeks non stop about a large flat screen lcd. I decided on the viewsonic VX-900. The specs rate it at a >20ms response time. Superclear MVA tech is supposed to be the reason for that. I recieved the monitor with ZERO dead pixels! Yeah! From newegg.com. The ghosting is not very noticable at all playing urban terror and such. THe colors are SO much more vibrant than my lcd. Also, the contrast ratio is VERY imporatant. Mine is like 550:1 i believe. The blacks are very black and white are perfectly white. Quite nice. 19inch also, so im equiv to a 21inch almost with a so much smaller footprint. Using DVI is very important also. Dont get an lcd w/o DVI out on your vid card and in on the monitor. Price was about 1100.00 i believe. I would give this monitor 9/10 stars. Love it!
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Old 08-12-02, 06:51 AM   #7
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Err. i meant colors more vibrant than my CRT!!! ITs to damn early right now. hehe
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Old 08-12-02, 07:00 AM   #8
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I have been using a LCD for my desktop for the last two years and the only way to use it is by using the DVI connection without the DVI connectiuon the Image quality is ****!

The DVI connection gives your Image quality a 100% boost and Lucky for me my LCD has a Refresh rate of 85Mhz! which is not bad! Had a 25" Plasma Display from work that I used @ Home and could not get it pass 60Mhz Refresh rate without it Locking up! Hehe

When buying a LCD look out for two Things that are a must

1) What's the Refresh rate
2) DVI Connection
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Old 08-12-02, 07:04 AM   #9
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For the past few months, I've been using a Gateway FPD1530 15" LCD. I believe this model has a 30ms response time...if I tracked down the original make of the monitor correctly.

I could not believe the appearance of the screen when I first fired things up. Everything seemed so much more vibrant and alive...Filled with dread, I fired up a game or two and to my surprise, I didn't see any appreciable ghosting. The one area that is absolutely killing me ( and causing me to look for another CRT ) is that the resolution is limited to 1024*768. I just can't live without higher resolution, regardless of how pretty things look.

I have a friend here at work who bought 2 of the top of the line Dell LCD's and he can run 1600*1200 without a hitch. After seeing it in action at the last LAN party, I can attest that CRT's ahve nothing over this monitor!

Typedef, you are going to be a happy camper with that monitor!
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Old 08-12-02, 07:05 AM   #10
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Default Princeton Senergy 751

Ive got a Princeton 751, and I like it. Gaming isnt a problem, but it just takes a second to get used to the response time delay (ghosting, i think) that happens during fast action. Other than that, the display is fine, clear text, excellent colors. Brightness and contrast are great, too, but in very dark scenes, it can take a little to get used to. Ive watched plenty of movies on it, too, with no visual problems. Cost me $760 usd including shipping, an excellent deal for a 17.4 incher. I just bought an MSI ti4400 to go along with it so I can finally find out how much better DVI is
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Old 08-12-02, 07:31 AM   #11
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I just recently bought the futurepower FP17 17" LCD Panel. Now most of you are probably balking at the prospect of a no-name panel but for the price (900 CDN) I got quite a deal.

If you can find this panel for sale, buy it immediately. It is actually an LG panel in disguise. It has DVI/Analog, USB Onboard and a 30ms refresh rate.

I am quite pleased at this panels performance and, combined with the DVI out on my Radeon 8500 games such as warcraft 3 have never looked better.

Also be wary that many panels require proper color calibration before gaming can be enjoyable. The grey/brown muckiness seen with most panels can be corrected by applying the correct gamma and color settings in your video cards control panel.

If you are going to buy a panel, buy at least a 17" panel. The 15" Panels aren't worth it and the native resolution of 1024x768 is too little considering the ATi r300 and possibly the NV30 are going to make 1280x1024 gaming at full quality a reality.
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Old 08-12-02, 08:02 AM   #12
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I have been using a Samsung 191t for about a month now. The 2d/desktop enviroment is top notch....the quality is incredible esp. w/ MS cleartype enabled in XP. The DVI connection gives it such an edge in quality over analog, that my friends can't believe the difference from my old 19" CTX VL 950 which is setup right beside my new LCD baby :-). The colors are bright and vivid, blacks are very black. The brightness level is very high also...much higher than my CRT. Now for the important part....gaming. Samsung claims to have a 25ms response time and I would say that is fairly accurate...maybe a little closer to 30ms but nonetheless its fast, but not fast enough from what I am used to for FPS. JK2 ghosts and so does Quake 3. Any game I try that has a lot of "movement" you get the ghosting. "Ghosting" is not an accurate term for some FPS, its more like a slight blurring effect while you are playing. It is still very playable however. Now let me tell you where it really shines for gaming, Warcraft 3....its absolutely beautiful on this thing esp w/ the DVI connection and my TI4600.....the quality is amazing. I have WC3 running in the monitors native resolution (1280x1024) and let me tell you it is a sight to behold. All RTS games I have tried look incredible on this thing due to the low FPS. Another game that looks nice and is very playable is Everquest. Since these are the 2 games I play the most gaming has not been too bad. When UT2003 comes out I will just be playing it on my 2nd box w/ my 19" CRT and TI4400...which is the formula I will follow until a LCD that does gaming just as well as a CRT comes along. To conclude, even though I am missing some of the game functionality that I am accustomed to, I can say this whole heartedly, I will NEVER go back to a CRT as my main display....LCD is the way to go. One more thing I want to mention....since using this LCD my eyestrain has dropped greatly...it was worth the $1,000 price just for that.

-Hoodwink

Here is a review also:

http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rlid=50132

FYI: This is where I bought mine, I have no issues with these guys...shipped fast..and not a single dead pixel in mine.

http://www.neqx.com/

Last edited by Hoodwink; 08-12-02 at 11:18 AM.
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