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Old 09-18-06, 12:46 AM   #1
openmedia
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33
Default Optimal PAL Video Out

Having some issues perfecting the display of PAL video on both analogue and digital TVs. No matter what I try I always appear to get some traces of motion blur on the outputted video. For example watching the same video clip or DVD on a DVD player or VCR vs a PCs TV Out, there is always more issues with motion from the PC.

Video Hardware
Asus A8N-VM CSM Motherboard with Integrated TV Out and DVI or
Asus M2NPV-VM which also has component TV Out.
Discreet 6200 Class AGP 8x card.

Video out
720x576 using standard HD576i output mode over Composite
720x576 using standard HD576i output mode over SVIDEO
720x576 using standard HD576i output mode over Component
1280x720_50 using over VGA
1280x720_50 using over DVI->HDMI
1280x720 over Component (appears to be 60Hz)
1920x1080_50 over VGA
1920x1080_50 over DVI->HDMI
1920x1080 over Component (appears to be 60Hz)

OS
Ubuntu Dapper or
Knoppmyth R5B7


First up are the general PAL/NTSC issues. It appears that the default 1080i and 720p Component modes are NTSC.

Next is no matter what the video source there is always motion blur. Currently trying the 1.0.8762 drivers.

Whats interesting is the blur is no where near as bad when playing NTSC material.

So my questions are
1. Are there any 50Hz modes for Component
2. Any options for X to tune the quality of the video out
3. Are the NVidia chips optimised for NTSC
4. Anyone also seen this with Windows XP? I have recently seen some PAL TV Demos with Windows MCE 2005 and they had many of the same issues.
5. Any suggestions on tweaks using nvidia-settings?

Steve
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Old 09-18-06, 01:07 AM   #2
openmedia
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Default Re: Optimal PAL Video Out

Further info. Done some digging with nvidia-settings --query and it appears the refresh rate is wrong

Code:
nvidia-settings -q RefreshRate

  Attribute 'RefreshRate' (mythtv:0.0, display device: TV-0): 5996.
    'RefreshRate' is an integer attribute.
    'RefreshRate' is a read-only attribute.
    'RefreshRate' is display device specific.
    'RefreshRate' can use the following target types: X Screen, GPU
My XF86Config-4 contains
Code:
    Option         "TVStandard" "HD576i"
    Option         "ConnectedMonitor" "TV"
    Option         "TVOutFormat" "COMPOSITE"
    Option         "NoLogo" "1"
so it appears that even though I specify a PAL output i'm getting an NTSC refresh rate.

Steve
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Old 09-18-06, 01:53 AM   #3
openmedia
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Default Re: Optimal PAL Video Out

Ok trying again with the two 50Hz modes for HDMI based screens, 1920x1080_50 and 1280x720_50 and they both produce an NTSC refresh rate.

Is there any way to get a true 50Hz output, or is nvidia-settings reporting the wrong value?

Steve
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Old 11-27-06, 06:38 AM   #4
furfurfur
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Default Re: Optimal PAL Video Out

Hello

New forum member here. I have just completely re-vamped my MythTV setup from an EPIA M10000 board driving a CRT over Composite to my new setup:

ASUS A8N VM CSM
Panasonic TH42PX600B 42" Plasma (Native res 1024x768)

As I don't have the TV-Out "card" I am connecting the two using a DVI -> HDMI cable.

Picture looks good alignment wise but I get bad motion "juddering" which is caused by interlacing or maybe the 50/60Hz issue - I'm not sure which.

Before I start delving deeper into modelines and refresh rates, I wonder if I could get some general advice about going forward. Have you been able to get any sort of decent playback of PAL material from an Nvidia based board?

My TV has SCART, S-Video, Component and HDMI inputs. Am I doing the right thing using DVI -> HDMI? That's the same way I'm connecting my Oppo DVD player which only has a DVI output, and it works really well.

For what it's worth, I am playing back broadcast DTV in the UK.
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Old 11-27-06, 12:25 PM   #5
Thunderbird
 
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Location: Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 2,105
Default Re: Optimal PAL Video Out

When a TV is connected to the PC using DVI/HDMI it is basicly a 'monitor' and not a TV anymore. It works very differently and the issues you see are not related with standard TVout.
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Old 11-27-06, 03:57 PM   #6
furfurfur
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Default Re: Optimal PAL Video Out

Thanks. It is worth me pointing out at this stage I've actually got it working really well now. The template xorg.conf that my mythtv distro was using was set to ignore EDID information from the panel.

Setting

Option "UseEdidFreqs" "true"

and using the built in mode 720x576 at 50Hz and bob deinterlacing works perfectly.

Yey!
James
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Old 11-27-06, 03:57 PM   #7
seppoi
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Default Re: Optimal PAL Video Out

I'm using this mode 1366x768 LCD television

Quote:
Originally Posted by openmedia
1280x720_50 using over DVI->HDMI
What is the best quality de-interlacer achievable with xine xxmc driver and how is that activated from xine command line?

I might have been able to activate bob deinterlacer but I'm not happy with the result compared to e.g. tvtime GreedyH software interlacer. I still see some jagged lines and blurred motion. Is the result with Windows pure video drivers better or is bob deinterlacer used there as well?

I'm looking for HW solution because my CPU is not powerful enough to both decode MPEG-2 and properly deinterlace 1080i that (unfortunately... 720p would be superior) is transmitted in the European FTA HDTV promo channels.
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Old 12-09-06, 12:42 PM   #8
valirion
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Default Re: Optimal PAL Video Out

are there any suggestions to the original question from openmedia?

i have a pal-b tv connected via svideo to my tv-out port.

i use driver version 1.0.9631 now. i haven't used tv-out for some time and with older driver versions it worked.

it seems that the nvidia-driver ignores any RefreshRate settings for tv-out.

i started X with verbose log output and the driver states that it ignores VerticalRefresh and uses tv encoder dependend settings for tv-0.

this leaves me with pal-b and 60Hz. it seems the driver is not adhering to the pal standard that says pal-b is 50 Hz.

any suggestions? is it a driver bug that should be reported to nvidia?
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Old 12-10-06, 01:17 PM   #9
openmedia
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Default Re: Optimal PAL Video Out

Appears that nvidia-settings is reporting the wrong refresh rate. I've set GL to sync on VBlank and then ran glxgears which reported 50 frames/second for the 720x576 modes over Composite/SVideo/Component.

Only remaing issue is to get 50Hz when choosing the HD720p and HD1080i modes over component.

Steve
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Old 12-10-06, 01:27 PM   #10
netllama
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Default Re: Optimal PAL Video Out

The HD modes do not currently support PAL (50Hz) refresh rates.

Thanks,
Lonni
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Old 12-10-06, 01:41 PM   #11
valirion
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Default Re: Optimal PAL Video Out

i updated to 9742 and the problem remains. and tried different resolutions

when I try the glxgears "test" glxgears reporst more than 2000 fps on display :0.1 (Screen 1 is the TV and I and was running at 720x756, PAL-B).

nvidia-settings reports a RefreshRate of ~ 60 Hz and xvditune outputs:

"720x576" 31.50 720 760 840 880 576 585 588 597 -hsync -vsync

note the 31.5 mhz pixelrefresh!

i even tried it under windows with the newest beta driver and it didn't give a usable tv-out.

i already send a bug-report to nvidia. probably they know what to do.
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Old 12-31-06, 07:15 PM   #12
phelin
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Default Re: Optimal PAL Video Out

Quote:
Originally Posted by netllama
The HD modes do not currently support PAL (50Hz) refresh rates.

Thanks,
Lonni
Does this mean that 50Hz is possible, but just not supported by the drivers? I thought that this was a hardware issue the tv-encoder being not able to produce 50Hz for component output (don't know about svideo and composite).
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