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Old 01-29-07, 06:51 PM   #133
gmichels
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Default Re: Slow AA text rendering in KDE

Just to say that I tried gusar's xorg.conf to no avail, as expected.

All I wanted to know is why does this happen only on newer generation cards and older generations such as gf3/4 are blazing fast as they should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PenGun
Folks Vista is on it's way. The Nvidia software crew is working overtime to get 8800 support for Vista. This is gonna impact our stuff ... get used to it.

KDE sucks hard BTW.
Are you saying nvidia's windows and linux team are the same?
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Old 01-30-07, 08:37 AM   #134
Linuxhippy
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Default Re: Slow AA text rendering in KDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusar
The only thing that will make nvidia do anything is money. Or pressure from one of the large vendors that buy nvidia chips in large quantities. The real solution is nouveau. We just need to be patient and wait for the nouveau driver to mature.
The only think which would help the nouveau driver would help programmers, programmers, programmers. However there are very few programmers which are interested in writing free drivers if closed-source are available for free.
There is no such hard demand for it as for java where a lot people started to create their own implementations.

lg Clemens
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Old 01-30-07, 12:26 PM   #135
Gusar
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Default Re: Slow AA text rendering in KDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linuxhippy
The only think which would help the nouveau driver would help programmers, programmers, programmers. However there are very few programmers which are interested in writing free drivers if closed-source are available for free.
There is no such hard demand for it as for java where a lot people started to create their own implementations.

lg Clemens
I didn't mean that big vendors would support nouveau if that is what you understood. I meant that nouveau is the solution for problems like this font rendering issue, which nvidia doesn't seem to care about. That's because the priorities of nouveau devs aren't mandated by money or big vendors, like it's the case with nvidia.

But you're right, what nouveau needs is developers. Unfortunately, writing a graphic card driver is not easy. But they're getting there, nouveau is making steady progress, those guys are amazing.
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Old 02-09-07, 02:46 PM   #136
naenyc
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Default Re: Slow AA text rendering in KDE

To recap, is there anything that can be done to enhance performance?

Regretfully, I'm building a MythTV system, they recommend KDE, and foolishly thought that a PciE 7600 would provide adaquate performance. My old Sun Ultra1 was a more enjoyable experience.

Tried to locate exact quote by "netllama" in regards xorg.conf settings. Thanks

naenyc
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Old 02-10-07, 05:21 AM   #137
Linuxhippy
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Default Re: Slow AA text rendering in KDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by naenyc
To recap, is there anything that can be done to enhance performance?
Well except to disable rgb-antialiased fonts, nothing can be done. Maybe XGL is able to work arround this problem at the cost of higher overhead everywhere else.

lg Clemens
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Old 03-02-07, 02:37 AM   #138
xorbe
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Default Re: Slow AA text rendering in KDE

Wow this thread is still going!! Yeah, greyscale AA looks just fine on 1600x1200 and runs fast, and personally I actually don't like the color-fringed rgb AA fonts. Maybe at lower res it's a bigger deal. *shrug*
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Old 03-04-07, 11:10 AM   #139
Linuxhippy
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Default Re: Slow AA text rendering in KDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by xorbe
Wow this thread is still going!! Yeah, greyscale AA looks just fine on 1600x1200 and runs fast, and personally I actually don't like the color-fringed rgb AA fonts. Maybe at lower res it's a bigger deal. *shrug*
Well some people here (including me) like it and don't understand why many 2D apps are dog slow on a GPU which can render stuff like Quake4 without problems.
Some people may think they should have spent their 200$ elsewhere.

lg Clemens
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Old 03-05-07, 11:30 AM   #140
xorbe
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Default Re: Slow AA text rendering in KDE

I can't help to think that it is purely a software design problem. 99.99% of the text on your screen is a solid color of text on a solid color of background. Especially with traditional productivity apps like KDE. Apps like Kate and KWrite have no excuse for font rendering slowness, cheap or expensive hardware.

And for the apps that aren't solid-on-solid, they should be able to repaint themselves to a buffer for text rendering. Asking the vid card to send back frame buffer data is a silly design! Somehow Windows gets by just fine. Font handling in gnu/Linux has been "lackluster" as long as I can remember... sigh...

ie, nVidia's hardware is a victim of the poor software design (in hindsight) of the X render system. Go gray scale and route around the damage.
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Old 03-05-07, 04:18 PM   #141
Linuxhippy
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Default Re: Slow AA text rendering in KDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by xorbe
ie, nVidia's hardware is a victim of the poor software design (in hindsight) of the X render system.
This has nothing to do with Render nor with Xorg. Its simply a driver-implementation specific limitation. This also has nothing to do with fonts themself.

I guess this has something to do with NVidia's X Accaleration Architecture (or whatever they call their self-rolled design) has problems combining stuff from the 2D and 3D pipelines. Maybe the nvidia-gpu is somehow limited and switching between both is complex. And the 2D silicon is very limited when it comes down to complex operations.
This may be complete bull****, well its just a theory

lg Clemens
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Old 03-05-07, 07:39 PM   #142
zbiggy
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Default Re: Slow AA text rendering in KDE

Present chips from all manufacturers can not render rgb aa fonts, just only monochrome. The most known font aa accelerator for windows was Matrox Parhelia (google for glyph aa) but this powerful 2D accelerator can not accelerate rgb aa too.

Nvidia Geforce7950GTX was advertised to have:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/go_7_series_techspecs.html
http://www.hothardware.com/viewartic...?articleid=697
Composited Desktop Hardware Engine
. Video post-processing
.Real-time desktop compositing
.Accelerated antialiased text rendering
.Pixel shader-driven special effects and animation

But real support for these features is unknown. I think this is still monochrome text aa. If it would be rgba aa the company would scream about it everywhere.

There are chances for rgb aa using xrender but benchmarks show geforce driver is very slow. AMD/ATI is working on CPU+GPU on one chip. It can solve this problem by tight cooperation of two cores (C+G). Everything depends on how effectively it will be put in silicon and driver support.
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Old 03-07-07, 06:49 AM   #143
Linuxhippy
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Default Re: Slow AA text rendering in KDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by zbiggy
There are chances for rgb aa using xrender but benchmarks show geforce driver is very slow. AMD/ATI is working on CPU+GPU on one chip. It can solve this problem by tight cooperation of two cores (C+G). Everything depends on how effectively it will be put in silicon and driver support.
The problem today are drivers, GPUs are capable of doing this stuff since FX5200/Radeon9500. Java is able to do this via GLSL-Shaders when using the java2d-opengl backend already so the silicon is there.

By the way I don't have any performance problems with my 945GM intel chipset ^^

lg Clemens
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Old 03-07-07, 07:26 AM   #144
zbiggy
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Default Re: Slow AA text rendering in KDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linuxhippy
The problem today are drivers, GPUs are capable of doing this stuff since FX5200/Radeon9500. Java is able to do this via GLSL-Shaders when using the java2d-opengl backend already so the silicon is there.

By the way I don't have any performance problems with my 945GM intel chipset ^^

lg Clemens
I saw Java rgb aa text. The technology is not ready I think. Black characters with colour random pixels around. Returned to ordinary 2d.
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