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Old 04-21-06, 03:21 AM   #13
MonkFish
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Default Re: Gainward 7800 GS OC AGP 512MB - no faster than 6800 GT?

Nope, I'm using nVidia - AGPGART yields even lower (~5fps) framerates.
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Old 04-21-06, 05:14 AM   #14
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Default Re: Gainward 7800 GS OC AGP 512MB - no faster than 6800 GT?

That's the idea, vary the NvAGP value. Seems it comes down to the on-cpu agpgart hardware I have.
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Old 04-21-06, 11:01 AM   #15
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Default Re: Gainward 7800 GS OC AGP 512MB - no faster than 6800 GT?

Still doesn't change the underlying issue - the 7800 seems no faster than the 6800!!!!
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Old 04-21-06, 11:33 AM   #16
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Default Re: Gainward 7800 GS OC AGP 512MB - no faster than 6800 GT?

Monkfish

I just noticed this thread today, and having recently got a 7800GS, i'd already installed doom3 for benchmarking on my windows drive. So i installed the doom3 binaries on my debian amd64 'sid' system, and thought i'd check out relative performance.

A bit of background on the system - 2.6.16 kernel, preempt disabled (server mode), using kernel agpgart, no swap disk. Driver 87.56.

all tests at ultra quality 1024x768, 2xAA set in nvidia-settings (i think doom3 can't set AA properly in linux through it's own menus). "timedemo demo1 cache", you don't need to do 2 runs to get accurate results with the cache option specified (try 2 runs with it and see).

First attempt - 43fps (?!)

I remembered doom3 doesn't like a 256mb agp aperature, in windows or linux. It's a strange bug, quake4 doesn't mind 256mb at all, and most other games benefit from 256mb, but doom3 suffers with it. Rebooted and dropped my aperature to 128mb in my bios. Back to linux.

second attempt with aperature at 128mb - 52 fps.

Still way off the pace, of my own window's results, and whig's linux result of 73fps. Now i'm wondering, even my 6800GT scored about the same in doom3 on linux last i played it on here. I started to think something was leeching power, or causing a race condition with doom3. Checking my terminal after doom3 exited, i noticed quite a few:

Quote:
idAudioHardwareALSA::Write: 4096 frames overflowed and dropped
Are you seeing that message if you run doom3 from a terminal? As in from konsole or gnome's terminal app, or xterm, or whatever you have to hand.

Try running doom3 from the terminal with this command line:

Quote:
doom3 +set s_driver oss
Third attempt, with a 128mb agp aperature and the above cmmand line telling doom3 to use oss and not alsa sound - 81fps !!


So from strikingly similar lacklustre performance to yours, i seem to have fixed it for my setup, perhaps the same two fixes will help yours? the doom3 agp aperature bug is most noticeable when AA is applied, gaining you 5-15 fps when it's not in play.

So far as glxgears goes, it is a bad benchmark with nvidia, even for comparing two cards in the same system. My 6800GT gave me 13,000 fps in glxgears. The very same card, with 7 bytes of it's bios edited to make it appear a quadro FX4000 to the linux drivers, gave me 23,500 fps instead! Exact same card, same clockspeeds, same 16ps/6vs configuration, only presented to the driver as something else, nearly doubled it's glxgears output.

My 7800GS scores about 14,000 last i checked. Glxgears is a very simple thing as 3d apps go, not even any texturing, and i suspect nvidia are somewhat limiting the consumer cards ability with it, to make the pro cards seem more powerful, given glxgears is the most accessible quick test for most linux customers. Specviewperf is the other extreme and highly detailed, but isn't known to everyone, as the only other and much more reliable test of 3d card abilities in linux.

In short, glxgears is a bad indicator of linux gaming performance amongst powerful nvidia cards. By contrast, my 6800GT in GT mode was a fair bit faster in doom3 and quake4 on linux than it was when in FX4000 mode, contrary to the apparent 'doubling' of 3d power according to glxgears for FX4000 mode. Of course that was down to increased opengl precision in FX4000 mode with the nvidia driver, but the point is, glxgears really is no great indicator of relative gaming performance between nvidia cards.

I wouldn't worry about relative glxgears results at all, so long as they're 5 digits with your card, you're fine.
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Old 04-21-06, 12:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: Gainward 7800 GS OC AGP 512MB - no faster than 6800 GT?

Here are some of my specs for frame of reference w/ a 6800GT setup under Linux...

Distro: SuSE 9.2 Pro
Kernel: 2.6.11 from SuSE 9.3 Pro, w/ custom config (can mail details if interested)

System
-------
MBoard: Abit AV8
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3500+ clocked to 3800+ specs (Winchester core)
Memory: 2 GB (4 x 512 MD) DDR400 (running at DDR333)
HDD: Maxtor DiamondMax 250GB SATA3G w/ 16 MB cache (7200rpm)
AGP clock: 74 MHz
PCI clock: 37 MHz
AGP: using AGPGART, 8x, Fast Writes, SBA enabled
Video: XFX 6800GT, hacked bios for 1.35V at full speed vs. 1.45V, 420 MHz GPU, 1100 MHz memory clock, stock cooling & fan

Doom3 Setup (can mail configs if interested)
-------------
1280 x 1024
High Quality, "Everything On", 8x AA, 4x AF


Results
-------
Test: timedemo demo1 precache
Runs: 5
Average: 79.5 FPS
High: 80 FPS
Low: 79 FPS

Can usually get another 1 FPS or so if I renice the X server to -20, but usually I don't bother.

Anyway, hope this helps
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Old 04-21-06, 12:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: Gainward 7800 GS OC AGP 512MB - no faster than 6800 GT?

Oh I forgot... using latest driver (1.0-8756). The driver update added about 5 FPS to Doom3 for me - solid as a rock, kudos to the nVidia Linux driver team.
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Old 04-21-06, 02:02 PM   #19
myshkinbob
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Default Re: Gainward 7800 GS OC AGP 512MB - no faster than 6800 GT?

Johnbell - those numbers, 1280x1024 with 8xAA? that's just not happening. Definitely not an accurate frame of reference! you'd be lucky to get those numbers with 2 6800GT in sli.

if you're setting the 8xAA in the doom3 menu and not the nvidia-settings panel, you don't get any AA at all. I can say with absolute certainty that is what is giving you 80fps with 8xAA - there's actually no AA at all!

80fps sounds the ballpark figure for your system at 1280x1024 without any AA. Try setting 4x or 8x AA in the nvidia panel before loading doom3, you'll see a big difference in fps, and image quality.

Good playable settings with your rig would be 1280x1024 with 2xAA set in the nv panel before you load it, that should give you an average of about 55-60fps in the timedemo. Though with all due respect, if you can't tell 0xAA from 8xAA in the first place, you might want to just continue playing without any AA at all, hehe.



Monkfish - I've just switched from kernel agpgart to nvagp, to give you more accurate numbers to expect with the 7800GS. fast writes and sideband enabled.

1024x768 2xAA = 83fps
1600x1200 0xAA = 78fps
1600x1200 2xAA = 67fps
1600x1200 4xAA = 52fps

As before, that's at ultra quality, with AA set in the nvidia-settings and not the game. And again, that's after changing aperature to 128mb in my bios, and running the doom3 binary with the "doom3 +set s_driver oss" command line. The alsa sound interface kills fps drastically wih those overruns i saw from it.

Also, this may aid your troubleshooting. I came across an unfortunate bug. I'm assuming your have vsync disabled in nvidia-settings (OpenGL Settings - 'Sync to V-Blank' should be unchecked). It seems the xserver likes to run in vsync all by itself when doom3 is set at my desktop resolution of 1600x1200. If you don't know what vsync is, to keep this brief, it essentially ties your framerate to your monitor refresh, maximum framerate is the refresh rate, below that it works on dividers of your refresh rate. Eg. in my case of 75hz, i get max 75fps, then it jumps down to 37fps, then 25fps. The effect on my timedemo with this vsync bug at 1600x1200 2xAA is a drop to 46fps - 20 fps lost!

The easiest way to detect this bug is to type "com_showfps 1" in the doom3 console, just once. It'll remember it on future runs. If you start seeing the framerate counter jump between precise dividers of your refresh rate and holding on those framerates, instead of rising and falling fairly random amounts all the time, you've got the same bug. To fix it, exit the xserver to the console ("/etc/init.d/gdm stop" on my debian), remove the nvidia kernel module, and then reload the xserver. Bug will be fixed, but you will need to reload the nvidia-settings and hit quit, to reapply your AA settings (it seems X forgets to apply your AA setting each time X is first loaded).

Should be plenty of info for you to go on. good luck sorting out your performance issue. your card should definitely be working faster than it is in doom3, by at least 20-30%.

P.S. if you ever want to enable fastwrites, i found out how to make nvagp enable them, but that's another topic for when your card is running at optimal.
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Old 04-21-06, 04:47 PM   #20
JohnBell
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Default Re: Gainward 7800 GS OC AGP 512MB - no faster than 6800 GT?

Did it your way... got 18.5 FPS w/ no other changes, just 8x AA in the panel.

Guess my eyes are bad, image quality didn't look any different to me.

Oh well. Didn't realize the doom config was bugged. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 04-21-06, 05:43 PM   #21
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Default Re: Gainward 7800 GS OC AGP 512MB - no faster than 6800 GT?

This is pretty neat... the tip on the doom3 bug got me started on testing.

So... all else the same as I posted above, here's what I get moving the AA slider around under nvidia-settings (average 5 test runs of 'timedemo demo1 precache'):

0x AA = 80 FPS (cool, that's consistent)

2x AA Bilinear = 74.2 FPS

2x AA Quincunx = 74.2 FPS (hrm, shouldn't this have dropped a little?)

4x AA Bilinear = 59.7 FPS (there, that's more like it)

4x AA, 9-tap Gaussian = 59.7 FPS (ok, I guess)

8x AA = 18.5 FPS (consistent, and definitely falls off a cliff here)


Both doom3 and quake4 look pretty good at 2x AA Bilinear, so I think I'll keep that. Thanks again for the override tip.
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Old 04-21-06, 06:09 PM   #22
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Default Re: Gainward 7800 GS OC AGP 512MB - no faster than 6800 GT?

Oh, and one other thing... the r_multiSamples (anti aliasing) setting under doom3/quake4 is definitely broken for the linux versions of the engine.

Wonder if anyone else is aware of that... good catch.
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Old 04-23-06, 06:05 AM   #23
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Default Re: Gainward 7800 GS OC AGP 512MB - no faster than 6800 GT?

[Edit] See below, apologies

Last edited by MonkFish; 04-23-06 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 04-23-06, 12:56 PM   #24
MonkFish
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Default Re: Gainward 7800 GS OC AGP 512MB - no faster than 6800 GT?

Gentlemen

Thank you for all your input. However, even after Mysh's advice, with AGP aperture to 128MB, s_driver to oss, my non-antialiased framerate is ~43 fps.

For your reference, my exact system specs are

Processor: 2x2.8 Xeon (non-EMT64) with hyperthreading on
Memory: 2GB DDR 333
Discs: Mirrored software RAID 80GB SATA
Mobo: PC DL Deluxe
WM: KDE 3.5.2 on Xorg 7
OS: Gentoo Linux with CFLAGS thus: -O3 -march=pentium4 -mtune=pentium4 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -msse -mmmx -msse2
Card: 7800GS AGP Gainward (OC standard) 512MB
Sound: Soundblaster Live

and gcc -v gives:

Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/specs
Configured with: /var/tmp/portage/gcc-3.4.6-r1/work/gcc-3.4.6/configure --prefix=/usr --bindir=/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/3.4.6 --includedir=/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/include --datadir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6 --mandir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/man --infodir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/info --with-gxx-include-dir=/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/include/g++-v3 --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --disable-altivec --enable-nls --without-included-gettext --with-system-zlib --disable-checking --disable-werror --disable-libunwind-exceptions --disable-multilib --disable-libgcj --enable-languages=c,c++,f77 --enable-shared --enable-threads=posix --enable-__cxa_atexit --enable-clocale=gnu
Thread model: posix
gcc version 3.4.6 (Gentoo 3.4.6-r1, ssp-3.4.5-1.0, pie-8.7.9)


Again, I very much appreciate everyone's help and I can't wait to get to the bottom of this. Input from nVidia would also be appreciated!

Last edited by MonkFish; 04-23-06 at 01:12 PM.
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