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Old 02-02-03, 12:27 PM   #25
pelly
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Personally, I was more than a bit disappointed when I saw such a blatant "Pro-NVIDIA" post on the front page of nV News...especially after all the effort I made to remove the "fanboy" stigma from the website ( which was unjustly given in the first-place IMHO ).

Being an NVIDIA-based website does not mean that nV News has to be biased towards NVIDIA products. It certainly does not dictate that nV News has to have the "fanboy" mentality either...Rather, all it means is that when NVIDIA does something well, it gets a great deal of attention. You can praise a product without being a fanboy by not being blind to other good products.

Using the BFG vs. ATI post as an example, we find that all the major ATI-vendors have been ignored. When making such a bold statement, you should always cover all bases to avoid the "fanboy" stigma.

Having been the driving force behind the first ATI review on nV News ( controversial without question ), I feel as though I am warranted in sharing some thoughts on this subject. My objective in reviewing the ATI card was to illustrate the fact that nV News was an unbiased source for the leading news in computer graphics. The perspectives and conclusions found within each review were reputable and could be trusted. To ensure the public's trust of each review, I could always be found in forums ( Rage3D included ) clarifying any issues and fielding further questions. Personally, I looked at the nV News community as fans of NVIDIA products, but above all....fans of the best graphics technology ( regardless of vendor ).

Unfortunately, one or two posts like this voids all the efforts made on my part. Perhaps I was wrong about nV News from the start...Perhaps nV News should only focus on NVIDIA products in the future. Regardless, I stand by my actions and views and are pleased with the state I left nV News. Now being a member of HardOCP, I realize that my input here might not mean anything...However, I hope people can take something from this post and it influences a decision or two in the future...
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Old 02-02-03, 12:42 PM   #26
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I agree with you Sean. Though please don't blame yourself for anything. You have done SO much for nVnews, don't forget that
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[size=1]The politics are invading the technology. We don't really like to mess with politics because that kind of adversarial relationship has nothing to do with pure technical operations and the technical specifications of what we like to play with, the hardware![/size]
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Old 02-02-03, 01:02 PM   #27
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Default Re: Re: Methinks it's time for a group hug.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark_fox
Well, hehe, I was posting truth, you cannot argue with the fact that Radeon 9700 Pro from Crucial costs £232.64, though you might argue that:
1. Itís not a good card - itís not worth £232.64
2. Geforce FX is a bargain so why get Radeon 9700 Pro for 232.64
etc etc...

Ok, so mebbe you're still having a little bit of issues with letting go of the whole nVidiot thing completely...... (<----and that 'rolleyes' goes out to Poursoul with BIG HUGS! )
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Old 02-02-03, 02:43 PM   #28
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As a newbie to these forums and an owner in the past of Riva 128, TNT, G200+ V2SLI, V3, G400, V5, GF3, GF4 and 9700 roughly in that order. I think I can safely say I buy what is best for me at the time, as a flight sim enthusiast the poor FSAA of the GF2 and ATI 8500 compared to other cards available at the time were two of the few I never considered. What has put this site on my short list of favorites is its high quality opinions of all hardware and usually excellent news links with pithy comments.

Personally I find FanATIcs as irritating as Nvidiots, perhaps more so now that the disappointing previews of the FX have given them something to crow about, I never read the front page of Rage 3D as I don't like the bias, I don't think the bias of RAGE 3D is all that bad but when hardware news reflects an obvious bias it is not worth reading. I expect NvNews to be enthusiastic about Nvidia's products but infantile fanboy crap such as GR Talkings recent ravings are of the quality that would get attacked in any reasonably balanced forum or discussion group, to have them on the front page along with worthwhile, credible news bits is just sad.

Edit:

It is not so much that Rage3Ds news is biased, it is that they pretty much only bother with ATI specific news that you know about anyhow if you go to any site that has a decent hardware news section. The fact that Rage3D is so ATI specific makes it uninteresting in the extreme, good for tech support type stuff only.

Last edited by Yelapaboy; 02-02-03 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 02-02-03, 03:42 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark_fox
I like nVidia and all that but man, these few posts have really been biased as hell, even the biggest nVidiot would see that...then again, this is nvnews - so maybe the bias should be expected...
Hmmm, now that IS the smartest note here yet. I mean, why call someone a fanboy just cuz they dig nv and took a couple of opportunities to poke the competition? I do dig nvidia. I wish I could dig ATI cuz I live right around the corner from their main complex. I could go dig cards out of their dumpster for free. But, that is where I believe they belong so I leave them their.

I spent well over a thousand dollars last year on ATI cards. I hated that but I could not offer meaningful opinions on any chipset/card configuration without testing them all. Or, at least the ones of import. I did my bit to help a fellow Countryman (countrycompany... whatever). They always let me down in the end as, after the testing is done, the ATI card goes on the shelf and the NVIDIA card goes in my gaming system. Yes, I play games as often as I have time to. I use NVIDIA because it makes gaming hassle-free. End of story.

Back to the matter at hand...

I think it is ridiculous that ATI charges for tech support. Although, I do believe that I know why they do it.

I was not kidding about the drivers team needing money. A friend and I discussed one day a couple years ago how we thought ATI could drag themselves out of the basement. We figured they had to spend a bootful o' cash on a chip/board that was very fast, get it out there and win a race, fix the drivers up as best as they could once the card was already out there, and, take a major $$$ loss on the product. This just so they could make their name stand out as something other than "the bad driver" company. They did this. I couldn't really believe it, but they did. The did nothing revelutionary, BTW. They followed a spec (DX9) that was largely laid out by others, they used a 256 (expensive) memory bus and an existing manufacturing process and they had it.

One could suggest that yes, they are trying to dig back every cent they can get their mitts on. One might also suggest that a company with buggy drivers could either A: spend a ton on support, or B: claw back a ton on support. In the end, the user is not paying for what it cost to R&D and build the card, then perhaps they should feel OK about paying a little to maintain it. Not a bad arguement. However, I would rather just "psssst, hey Buddy, BUY NVIDIA".

I don't mind being called a fanatic/fanboy/nvidiot. I mean seriously, how could that matter? I would have to a real whining little baby to have that even make an impression on me.

I dig NVIDIA.

I dig their video cards.

I think when I do my first review here at nvnews you will also see that, nvidiot or not, I will give all comers a fair shake and I will be honest. If I want to have a little fun on the news page and poke ATI a bit, who really cares. Better question, why would anyone care as much as some folks seem to?

Relax, some of you take yourselves and the whole video card thing way, way to seriously.

Peace

GR Talkin

Last edited by GR Talkin; 02-02-03 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 02-02-03, 03:55 PM   #30
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Given your response, you might want to back-up a page and re-read ( or perhaps read for the first time ) my post...

Then again, you could just ignore it...
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Old 02-02-03, 03:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by pelly
Using the BFG vs. ATI post as an example, we find that all the major ATI-vendors have been ignored. When making such a bold statement, you should always cover all bases to avoid the "fanboy" stigma.
Allow me to print for you here a couple of e-mail exchanges on this very subject if you will...

from a reader:

"You'r post simply implies that if customers buy ATI cards they need to pay for Tech support and its simplynot true...

GR Talkin':

I'm sorry but if consumers buy ATI cards, the do have to pay for tech support. It is true. Some models of ATI cards offer 30 days free then you pay. I did not mention anything about cards from 3rd party manufacturers.

If I had said the customers who buy cards based on ATI GPUs have to pay that would be misleading. I am well aware that 3rd parties may offer their own unique and completely independent tech support solutions. This is why I did not say, "If you buy an "ATI" card or a "Powered by ATI" card you have to pay for tech support.".

If, because I did not specifically note the policies of ATI's manufacturing partners, a reader should come to the conclusion that tech support from those companies also must be paid for, then it is not I who have mislead the reader but rather the reader has misled him or herself by making assumptions about something that I did not even mention.

Peace

GR


And then there was this guy...

"Did you look on nvidia's web site to see how much their support was? Guess what there is none. At lease ATI has support for their products and their 3d party vendors."

GR Talkin'

NVIDIA does not sell video cards. They sell no consumer goods, as a matter of fact. What they do do however, is tech support the people who buy their products. Those people being add-in-board, motherboard and game console manufacturers. Their customers are the only people they are beholden to.

ATI sells video cards to end users and then charges them for tech support after a free grace period (if one is included with the particular model).

I am not sure what point it is you are trying to make.

Peace

GR


Hmmm, I am not sure I failed to make a complete and meaningful post about this matter. Just because I was very obviously poking ATI in th eye with a sharp stick I am accused of somehow shoddy journalism and/or of being a fanboy. OK, I can handle it. And, if peeps around here wanna flame me I am down with that. But, you best have your poop in a group. I do love a good scrap.

Also, if I find another mainstream video card manufacturer doing the same thing, I will poke them too. Go ahead, find me one and I'll do it.

Also, they may well have to offer support for 3rd party vendors as part of the sales agreement when the chips head out the dorr. It isn't like the 3rd parties don't know how much they may have to spend on tech supporting ATI's products.

Last edited by GR Talkin; 02-02-03 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 02-02-03, 03:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by pelly
Given your response, you might want to back-up a page and re-read ( or perhaps read for the first time ) my post...

Then again, you could just ignore it...
I would not do that Pelly

I am a complete newb in forums tho so be patient. If I miss something please point it out rather directly. I may not find what it is that you refer to quickly enough. I will try tho...
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Old 02-02-03, 04:00 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by pelly
Given your response, you might want to back-up a page and re-read ( or perhaps read for the first time ) my post...

Then again, you could just ignore it...
Or, are you being sarcastic there? If so, don't bother, I will not respond to sarcasm if and when I see it.
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Old 02-02-03, 04:08 PM   #34
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Just calm it down with the flamebait... at least for now. People just wonder because they A. don't know who you are and B. it's your first post.

And believe me, you do NOT have to try to piss people off.
 
Old 02-02-03, 04:10 PM   #35
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Since you're new to the forums, let me point out that there is something called an edit button. If you can't use your brain, at least try using that.
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Old 02-02-03, 04:11 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Baron
Just calm it down with the flamebait... at least for now. People just wonder because they A. don't know who you are and B. it's your first post.

And believe me, you do NOT have to try to piss people off.
I do not know what "flame bait" is. You mean my news posts or my forum posts?
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