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Old 02-16-03, 03:07 PM   #13
gokickrocks
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hey bladerunner, if you ever switch to the gf fx, would you consider selling your 9700 mem block to me?

or would you be able to duplicate 1?
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Old 02-16-03, 05:30 PM   #14
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BladeRunner, was not suggesting you should work to single handedly advance the game indusrsty, only i had check out you sig and acutaly seen that waterblock at somewhere before, and in contrast to that i found it odd that you plased no intrest in investaging the advancement in the gameing inudsty. obviously the very recent dx9 is a part of that and 3dmark03 is the fist benchmarking aplication based on that feature set. dissmissing that is damn near as bad a claiming that oj was innocent becuase the glove did not fit. mind you, i am not anti nvidia or anti anyone, only anti bs, for crying out loud, i want the beter 3dmark03 scores to be true for the fx, but the strange circumstances surounding the topic do much to cast doubt on the sitation. sure there are reviews out there but they are very fishy, you on the otherhand i was hopeing we could trust to report on the issue the other review compleatly overlook.

as for the pr rhetoric, it has been discussed quite a bit elsewere but i supose i will review the points in question here:

1) while 3dmark03 is not gods gift to benchmarking sent down on a white horse from heven, that does not make it the spawn of satan either. all benchmarks only hold little value in the overall comupting industry, to dissmiss any one for that reason is absurd.

2) showing newer techonology in a beter light is not being bias, showing superior techonology in a beter light is not bias either. considering that; there is not a benchmark in this planet which could be argued as unbiased.

3) while not intictive of actual gameing preformace, all benchmarks are guilty, 3dmark is less indicitive of that which it sets out to replicate as a q3 timedemo is indicitive of q3 gameplay. sure 3dmark does not use an engine implemented in an actual game, but then again most games don't use an engine implemented in another game either. on the otherhand, 3dmark does make use of the dx rendering api in order to alow the benchmarks of grapics cards useing technology that is avalable to all game developers.


also i do understand that you are interested in playing whith the cooling and i respect that, from what i have seen you are damn good in the feild and i don't like deta blacklabel soundlevel any more than you do. however, again i am dissapointed that you are not willing to spare the 10 minutes it would take to answer the quetsion which everyone else with a fx has been extreemly tight liped on and the only argument. regardless, i respect your choice either way, i just have little respect for some of the arguments you presented as noted above.
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Old 02-16-03, 06:19 PM   #15
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Umm..... I'm not really wanting to go down this road any further as it appears you are trying to make a mountian out of a mole hill.

Going by your way of thinking it would be very wrong for me to do, or show any information or performance figures for this card as it was sent to me as a dead example, and may have been from a pre production batch.

If I were set-up for it I would maybe have a go but like said I have lost everything recently and downloading things on a dial up takes so long, I don't have DX9 or 3d mk atm. The card was sent to me for a reason and I barely have the time at the moment to do that. I could understand your comments more If I had said "I have an FX..... benchmarks to follow". What you say is partly true about 3dMk but my opinion of it is based of previous versions. maybe this one will be more realstic.
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Old 02-16-03, 07:00 PM   #16
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first off, i never claimed that you were under any obligation to bechmark the card, i was hopeing you would so i and i didn't think it would hurt to ask. i was not put off by the fact that you did not accept my request, i was simply offened by the arguemnts you used to back up your dission. you see, sence i have apparntly not made this clear enough yet; i just want to know if the newer drivers are omiting things from rendering in order to achive the prefomace gains reported by recent reviews. i am not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, only tring to figure out if i am looking at a mountain or a mole hill. with your blatent disrespect for my intrest you are obviously the one buliding a mountain at this point, one right in front of me. also you claim that what i was saying was only partialy true, so according to you another part of what i say to be untrue. i am willing to accept the possablity that i might be misguided; however, you have yet to show anything to prove that i am, yet you still imply i am lying in some unspecified way. so i pose the question directly; what evedence do you have to slander my statments with the implecation of deceit?
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Old 02-16-03, 07:29 PM   #17
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It's clear to me you are just set on making a fuss over nothing. I gave you valid reasons to begin with:-

"It's not mine to keep for long, and was just a card in a jiffy bag that came by post a was a bit battered on arival, (no box or discs). I have limited time due to work etc, so benching is something I wont be doing"

"I don't have DX9 or 3d mk atm. The card was sent to me for a reason and I barely have the time at the moment to do that"

and

"it would be very wrong for me to do, or show any information or performance figures for this card as it was sent to me as a dead example, and may have been from a pre production batch"

If I had games or 3d mk DX9 downloaded and installed I'd test it out for what you mention, but I'm doing other things to the card, not benchmarking it, which as I had already stated I have little time to do anyway. If you choose to disbelive my reasons then that's just fine:

Back on topic.







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Old 02-16-03, 08:20 PM   #18
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kyleb: you are done here.

Back to the topic..I'm sorry about this BladeRunner
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[b]Optimization guidelines by Koji Ashida of NVIDIA:[/b][list][*]Use fx12 instructions whenever possible[*]Use lowest pixel shader version[/list][url=http://developer.nvidia.com/docs/IO/10878/ChinaJoy2004_OptimizationAndTools.pdf]source[/url]

[size=1]The politics are invading the technology. We don't really like to mess with politics because that kind of adversarial relationship has nothing to do with pure technical operations and the technical specifications of what we like to play with, the hardware![/size]
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Old 02-16-03, 09:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by kyleb
2) showing newer techonology in a beter light is not being bias, showing superior techonology in a beter light is not bias either. considering that; there is not a benchmark in this planet which could be argued as unbiased.
showing something in a better light than something else is the definition of bias.
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Old 02-16-03, 09:34 PM   #20
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I can't believe kyleb was banned for that. Yea sure he was pushy as hell and would not take no for an answer but still! I have been flamed FAR worse and never thought the person should be banned or had their kneecaps turned to rubber or anything like that.

NE way, BladeRunner did you dismantle the card and photograph it? That looks like a heatpipe of some type is that correct? Very interesting. That is one serious cooling solution no doubt about it. Can you run 3DMark03 while you are at it?

kidding!
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Old 02-16-03, 09:47 PM   #21
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i hope im not baned, after all i did not call any of his more recent arguments absurd anyway; only complaned that his orignal arguments were the same pr drivel we got from nvidia just days before. seems odd for someone to get banned just for saying how it is doesnt it?
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Old 02-16-03, 10:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Slappi
WTF is wrong with you ....... is this Ho from ATI?
No, just a someone who seems to have trouble with reading comprehension.
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Old 02-16-03, 10:10 PM   #23
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No one is banned, just get back to the topic...NOW
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[b]Optimization guidelines by Koji Ashida of NVIDIA:[/b][list][*]Use fx12 instructions whenever possible[*]Use lowest pixel shader version[/list][url=http://developer.nvidia.com/docs/IO/10878/ChinaJoy2004_OptimizationAndTools.pdf]source[/url]

[size=1]The politics are invading the technology. We don't really like to mess with politics because that kind of adversarial relationship has nothing to do with pure technical operations and the technical specifications of what we like to play with, the hardware![/size]
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Old 02-16-03, 10:21 PM   #24
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I'm curious Bladerunner, is it in your genes to be so antipathic toward noise? I am running a delta 38 and a few high speed 120 and 80mm fans, yet I never have been bothered by it. Keep up the good work, some day even I may try watercooling.
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