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Old 08-17-02, 02:20 AM   #13
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Because nVidia didn't ACQUIRE the chip, they designed it from the ground up. The ART-X team had already nearly finished the Flipper chip, and about the only thing ATI had to do with it is that it now gets branded under the ATI name.

XGPU, however, was designed from the ground up by nVidia's engineers.
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Old 08-17-02, 02:40 AM   #14
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sigh.

I don't care what name you give to them. One group of engineers designed the Flipper chip, and then turned around and designed the R300. The same guys. Both chips.

If one group of engineers could do it, why couldn't NVIDIA's engineers?
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Old 08-17-02, 05:28 AM   #15
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ArtX engineers designed R300 entirely on their own without any input whatsoever from other engineers working at ATI? unless that above statement is true, the parallel you are drawing is not accurate.
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Old 08-17-02, 08:57 AM   #16
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I guess the distinction that people are making is that ATi bought ready made technology and shoe horned it into a PC chip. nVidia, on the other hand, bought the rights to a whole load of theoretical technologies and had to do their design from the ground up.

An interesting aside, if JC has built the NV30 backend to DoomIII then what did he use as a reference when he did the programming? Has he now got a version of the NV30 to play with?
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Old 08-17-02, 09:21 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by SurfMonkey
I guess the distinction that people are making is that ATi bought ready made technology and shoe horned it into a PC chip. nVidia, on the other hand, bought the rights to a whole load of theoretical technologies and had to do their design from the ground up
I don't get it, what load of theoretical technologies has nv30 over radeon 9700?Do you know something we don't?And don't tell me about the cinefx, please!!!
If he has a board then why not use it for quakecon presentation?
Anyway it's good to hear that he might have an nv30 because it might be closer to launch!!At least I hope!!

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Old 08-17-02, 09:34 AM   #18
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because the 9700 drivers are close to finished
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Old 08-17-02, 09:41 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by SavagePaladin
because the 9700 drivers are close to finished
If nv30 is so powerful and 2x faster than radeon 9700(as many people here have been saying) it should beat it hands down even with alpha drivers!!
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Old 08-17-02, 10:11 AM   #20
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Beating and working right don't always go together.
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Old 08-17-02, 10:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fotis

If nv30 is so powerful and 2x faster than radeon 9700(as many people here have been saying) it should beat it hands down even with alpha drivers!!
NV30 will be significantly faster than R9700, but let's stay realistic here, nobody really expects it to double the perfomance of R9700!
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Old 08-17-02, 11:01 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fotis

I don't get it, what load of theoretical technologies has nv30 over radeon 9700?Do you know something we don't?And don't tell me about the cinefx, please!!!
If he has a board then why not use it for quakecon presentation?
Anyway it's good to hear that he might have an nv30 because it might be closer to launch!!At least I hope!!
I never said that the NV30 has anything over and above the R300 technologie wise, though that's not strictly true; .13u process being one example. But it is fairly obvious that it will have a higher core and memory speed than the R300.

What I meant was the Gigapixel and 3dfx technologies were all theoretical, nothing had ever been, successfully, built with them. nVidia had to do all the design work and implementation work from scratch. ATI bought a ready made design and re-engineered to become a PC gfx chip.

If he has a board then he will be under a very strict NDA and, unless nVidia allow him to demo the NV30, he won't be able to use it publically.
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Old 08-17-02, 03:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by SurfMonkey


I never said that the NV30 has anything over and above the R300 technologie wise, though that's not strictly true; .13u process being one example. But it is fairly obvious that it will have a higher core and memory speed than the R300.

What I meant was the Gigapixel and 3dfx technologies were all theoretical, nothing had ever been, successfully, built with them. nVidia had to do all the design work and implementation work from scratch. ATI bought a ready made design and re-engineered to become a PC gfx chip.
It'll be a surprise for me if nv30 is clocked higher than radeon 9700,remember gf2ultra=250 & gf3=200!!On the other hand they have some new blood(3dfx)things may be different this time.
I don't expect nvidia to use any of the rampage-mojo tech in nv30 because if I remember corectly David Kirk said that they mixed the 3dfx engineers with nvidias to make up new tech.
I don't think that radeon was a re-engineered design.
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Old 08-17-02, 03:20 PM   #24
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The memory speed at the very least is known to be higher. Thats one rumor I don't doubt.

Anyway, carry on while I go back to sleep.
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