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Old 10-28-06, 05:26 PM   #397
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Default Re: GeForce 8800 GTX is selling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion X2
I never said I was the "be all end all," smart-ass.
Xion, I applogize for being a smart ass.
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Old 10-28-06, 05:39 PM   #398
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Default Re: GeForce 8800 GTX is selling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemed
In all honesty, I find it kind of odd that people willing to shell out well over $500 for a video card are complaining about having to spend a little over $100 for a decent PSU.

It only seems logical, that after dumping down so much money on just a single graphics card, you would have no problem getting a PSU that is guaranteed to run the card and the rest of your system just fine.
Well in my view I did shell out plenty of cash on a decent PSU, and its called a TPII-550. If high quality 550 and 600 watt PSU's were going to have a problem running a single G80, nvidia would have certainly recommended more than 450.

If nvidia is saying 450, it must be assumed that includes lower quality variants that are less than the greatest grandest 450 watt unit ever made. How many people buying a G80 and seeing that they meet the 450 watt minimum are going to have top of the line models?

That being said a high quality 550 or 600 will certainly be fine. To think otherwise is not to use common sense, at least in my view.
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Old 10-28-06, 05:55 PM   #399
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Default Re: GeForce 8800 GTX is selling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillyeagle
Xion, I applogize for being a smart ass.
Thank you for that. I apologize if I flew off the handle a little in responding to you or anyone else. I'm admittedly emphatic about this topic because I've seen dual-rail PSU's fail on three different occasions and have done a lot of research on this subject.
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Old 10-28-06, 06:08 PM   #400
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Default Re: GeForce 8800 GTX is selling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillyeagle
Well in my view I did shell out plenty of cash on a decent PSU, and its called a TPII-550. If high quality 550 and 600 watt PSU's were going to have a problem running a single G80, nvidia would have certainly recommended more than 450.
The thing is, you should be taking nVidia's blanket statement about a "450 watt power supply" with a grain of salt. Anybody who has researched power supplies will tell you that wattage is not all that matters. You must, must, MUST look at the amps on the 12v rail if you're going to be running a high-end graphics card.

If you won't take my word for it, then take a look at the form factor #'s for the last power-supply revision. You will see under section 1.2 that there is an emphasis on increasing the 12v rail performance:

http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf

Quote:

1.2.1

System components that use 12V are continuing to increase in power. In cases where expected current requirements is greater than 18A a second 12 V rail should be made available. ATX12V power supplies should be designed to accommodate these increased +12 VDC currents.
nVidia played it safe when using a "450W" blanket statement, because most of these models are single 12v rail PSU's and have a bigger pool of immediate amps to pull from. Therefore, they didn't have to deal publically with the issue of dual-rail PSU's giving out on so many high-end systems due to lack of available amps on the second rail. Single-rail PSU's, for the most part, do not have that problem because they can stack more amps on a single-rail than they can a multi-rail power-supply.

Case and point is the new PCPower & Cooling 1000W single-rail. It has a whopping 72A on a single 12v rail. The largest # of amps I have ever seen on a single 12vrail that is contained in a multi-rail PSU is 22.

Try and find a dual-rail PSU at that low a wattage (450W) if you can; they are few and far between. I don't recall ever seeing one.

It is not all about wattage, and I can't understand why so many of you always fall back to that as your default argument. There are many other factors to take into consideration like build quality, voltage regulation, amp total, efficiency, etc. All of these play a part in how good a power-supply is. Looking at the wattage alone is just a really dumb, amateur thing to do. There are lousy-built 600W power-supplies out there that couldn't power an electric toothbrush or hair-dryer if they had to.
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Old 10-28-06, 06:14 PM   #401
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Default Re: GeForce 8800 GTX is selling?

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Originally Posted by mike686
Do you happen to know the specs on how much amps it needs?
AFAIK 30A is needed for the GTX version.
i guess this means 15A for each 12v rail should be enough.
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Old 10-28-06, 06:15 PM   #402
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Default Re: GeForce 8800 GTX is selling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentkay
Here is a noob-question regarding PSUs. When IŽd purchase a 1000w PSU but only use 600w with my components, do I actually waste energy or wonŽt my electricity bill any higher if I had used a 650w PSU instead in the first place?
I think that Redeemed already answered your question correctly, but I just wanted to verify that he is right. Your PSU, although capable of 1000W in that case, would only be drawing as much power from your wall socket as is currently needed. So if you needed 600W, it would draw 600W. Not 1000.
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Old 10-28-06, 06:19 PM   #403
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Default Re: GeForce 8800 GTX is selling?

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Originally Posted by SH64
AFAIK 30A is needed for the GTX version.
i guess this means 15A for each 12v rail should be enough.
I haven't heard the number 30 tossed out there, but if that's what they're saying, they're talking about the entire system--not just the card itself. As I said before, a 7900GTX only uses about 9A; it'd be a real long shot if the 8800GTX more than tripled that. Doubling it I could see, but not tripling it.

But this still brings up a problem for individuals with dual-rail PSU's. If a GTX-powered system requires 30A total, and they only have 19A available on their 2nd 12v rail (because the processor is hogging rail #1 all to itself per current ATX PSU design specs), then where are they going to get the extra amps that are required?
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Old 10-28-06, 06:33 PM   #404
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Default Re: GeForce 8800 GTX is selling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion X2
I haven't heard the number 30 tossed out there, but if that's what they're saying, they're talking about the entire system--not just the card itself. As I said before, a 7900GTX only uses about 9A; it'd be a real long shot if the 8800GTX more than tripled that. Doubling it I could see, but not tripling it.

But this still brings up a problem for individuals with dual-rail PSU's. If a GTX-powered system requires 30A total, and they only have 19A available on their 2nd 12v rail (because the processor is hogging rail #1 all to itself per current ATX PSU design specs), then where are they going to get the extra amps that are required?
I'm myself wondering about that too .. i just forwarded what i heard (not much info there).

i think i'll just wait for the reviews to see how the power reqs will be going. if they are too high then i think i'm not going SLI. i'll most likely wait for the 65nm G80 version which i suppose will be less power demanding , has shorter PCB & higher clocks.

actually i'm already dropping my plans on going SLI for the current 8800GTX (90nm with the known specs) unless something so tempting comes along ..
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Old 10-28-06, 06:47 PM   #405
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Default Re: GeForce 8800 GTX is selling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemed
And one way or another it is going to pay off, either in dual GTS's or dual GTXs. Right now, I'm going for the dual GTS's as it seems Xion's arguments do add up.
Redeemed, I still say you'd be fine going dual GTX's on that PSU. I mean, I'd hate to be wrong and it not work out for you, which is why I said "95% certain" and not 100%. But if I were in your shoes I'd give it a shot. But I would absolutely recommend running your system as lean as possible to free up some wattage.
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Old 10-28-06, 07:40 PM   #406
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Default Re: GeForce 8800 GTX is selling?

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Originally Posted by ArrowMk84
The thing with using a 1kw PSU to power 600w is that its not as efficient as a 650w would be for that same system. PSUs are designed to be their most efficient at their max sustained power draw.
I've heard this numerous times, but the graphs I've seen don't support it (for instance, this one). I'm wondering where people get this idea from because I'm in the process of trying to replace all of my low-efficiency PSU's with high-efficiency ones (I just started having to pay my own electric bill) so I want to know which is actually better.

Sorry about the off-topic (although not really so off-topic anymore in this thread).
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Old 10-28-06, 09:40 PM   #407
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Default Re: GeForce 8800 GTX is selling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion X2
Redeemed, I still say you'd be fine going dual GTX's on that PSU. I mean, I'd hate to be wrong and it not work out for you, which is why I said "95% certain" and not 100%. But if I were in your shoes I'd give it a shot. But I would absolutely recommend running your system as lean as possible to free up some wattage.

I hear you, but I really don't want to forgo any of the hardware I have. I'm quite confident that two 8800GTS's will be plenty powerful enough, and hopefully not too far behind two 8800GTXs.

If the 8800GTX is actually quite a bit faster in games than the 8800GTS is, then I might think about going with dual 8800GTXs. But, as it stands, I think the best configuration for me would be to keep all the hardware I have in my rig and just settle for two 8800GTS's. At that, I'd still have a screaming fast rig that should munch right through any game or benchmark I throw at it. If not, I'll be patient and sell both 8800GTS's as soon as the 8900GTX becomes available as I'm quite certain that I could run dual 8900GTX's due to them being on 65nm (wow, that was a long sentence! ).
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Old 10-28-06, 10:55 PM   #408
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Default Re: GeForce 8800 GTX is selling?

I sent e-mail to ATA.com to see if they actually had stock or not.
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