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Old 02-26-03, 08:18 PM   #1
Cotita
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Default nv30 Doom3 alpha scores

Digit-life has updated their GeforceFx review and included Doom3 alpha scores.

The Geforce Fx outperforms the Radeon9700 by 16% in 800x600 and 35%!!! at 1024x768.

Before we jump into any conclusions we have to take into account that doom3 is in alpha stage and that Carmack himself has said that the Radeon 9700 and geforceFx perform very much the same with their current build.

Still, it looks impressive.
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Old 02-26-03, 08:43 PM   #2
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yes it isnt really a good idea to compare an alpha game... but the link is here if anyone wants to see early early benchies
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...fx-ref-p9.html
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Old 02-26-03, 08:48 PM   #3
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you really must be joking right?

Which out of the 5 rendering paths did the nV30 use? What path did the R300 take? Did you happen to really read the .plan file by JC last month?
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Old 02-26-03, 10:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Digit-life has updated their GeforceFx review and included Doom3 alpha scores.
i cant find anything about updates ,
didnt these benchmarks are the same posted
weeks ago ?

or digitlife is using newer ATI/Nvidia drivers?

Quote:
Originally posted by jbirney
you really must be joking right?

Which out of the 5 rendering paths did the nV30 use? What path did the R300 take? Did you happen to really read the .plan file by JC last month?
well it looks like Digit life is using the
standarGL COnfig.. in both the NV30 and the R300..

so can we say that both are using the maximun
precision of both cards? 96bits and 128bits?

the only card using propietary paths
according with Digitlife in that benchmarks, is the Geforce4 ,for obvious reasons. it doesnt have Fp color precision ,like any other DIrectx8 card.

i know the game test are in Doom3 alpha ,but i think
it is still good info , and a no surprising one ,
considering the Geforcefx fillrate ,and how consistent
its in raw performance , when no AA/AF is used .
something that i dont think we would see to its
maximun levels in current generation video cards
in Doom3 ,because of Performance issues.

Last edited by Nv40; 02-26-03 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 02-26-03, 11:57 PM   #5
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I seriously doubt both are running on the standard ARB2 path. J.C. has stated that in the latest build the R300 is roughly twice as fast as the NV30 on that path. I doubt an alpha would have that large of a relative difference between cards wrt the later version, even if the magnitude of performance for both cards improved by that factor for later builds.

I'm pretty sure the NV30 is running on an early NV30 or perhaps even the NV25 codepath. There's no telling. The R300 could be running on ARB1, or R200, or whatever as well. Those results are pretty worthless.
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Old 02-27-03, 01:35 AM   #6
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If this build of DoomIII is from E3 2002, I'm guessing that the GeforceFX is using the NV20 codepath and the 9700 is using the R200 codepath. I.e. vendor-specific extensions for the previous generation of cards.

The reason I think this is because the OpenGL extensions for ARB_vertex_program and ARB_fragment_program weren't even approved until June 18 and September 18 2002 respectively, and they weren't exposed in the drivers for the cards until some time later.

If I'm right, this would mean that neither card is using the power of it's high-precision internal rendering, and both are doing all the extra passes that the previous cards would have needed to do.

So take these numbers with a heaping helping of salt. They may be totally different from the way the cards would stack up with a newer build of the engine that has specialized code paths for the new cards. If the old cards required n passes to draw the scene but the new cards require only 1, that would mean that a specialized codepath for the new cards would be doing 1/n times the geometry and blending work but n times as much pixel shader work on that one pass (and at a higher precision).

Another factor that could shift performance is the possibility that JC will use some of the extra power of the new cards to add new features or better image quality (which I'm hoping for).

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Old 02-27-03, 01:37 AM   #7
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i don't see why you insist on which path did nv30 use?

it prolly isn't ARB2, but i really don't care if r300 and nv30 use different paths if they can do their work. from standard point of view of any gamer out there there is no importance whatsoever about paths or anything.......they are only interested in HOW FAST does certain card perform (me included).

and if i remember correctlly JC said that nv30 is twice as fast as r300 when it uses it's path.so we will prolly see even better results when the game and nv30 hit the shelves.

do you honestly think that any reviewer and specially any highely hyped gamer will even bother to think about paths??.......they'll see results and as long as nv30 can produce results it will be good card.
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Old 02-27-03, 01:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: nv30 Doom3 alpha scores

Quote:
Originally posted by Cotita
Digit-life has updated their GeforceFx review and included Doom3 alpha scores.

The Geforce Fx outperforms the Radeon9700 by 16% in 800x600 and 35%!!! at 1024x768.

Before we jump into any conclusions we have to take into account that doom3 is in alpha stage and that Carmack himself has said that the Radeon 9700 and geforceFx perform very much the same with their current build.

Still, it looks impressive.
My former NV20 runs 50% better than both cards.
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Old 02-27-03, 01:53 AM   #9
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nvidia have been showing a graph of similar results for Doom 3 for months now. I believe it was 1280 x 1024 at 2AA.

As Ut2003 also shows a big improvement at 1600x1200 for the FX over the 9700 Pro with no AA I would suggest that yes it is an indication of raw fillrate for these latest games. This sort of goes with what nvidia have been saying about the FX being for the latest or future games with this strange 8x1 / 4x2 flexible architecture.

I think people are forgetting that the FX does outperform the 9700 Pro at most non AA/AF resolutions, just not by much and about to be eclipsed by the R350.

Maybe it will be good for Doom and future games, but the nv35 will be better for those games of course. I can't see the point in the nv30 now, it missed it's window of opportunity ( to quote a terrible Dilbertesque phrase ).
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Old 02-27-03, 01:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by silence
i don't see why you insist on which path did nv30 use?
I realize that the average person doesn't care which code path the card takes.

I was explaining it to the people who may read this forum to support my argument that the performance of an alpha build of this engine may have no bearing on which card turns out to be better for the game once it's done.

The code that is doing the rendering on these cards in the alpha build may not even be touched when the final game is actually released. It would be like running a Quake 3 benchmark, seeing that card A is faster than card B, and then saying "See, card A is faster than card B at DoomIII !". There isn't enough correlation to support that conclusion.

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Old 02-27-03, 02:15 AM   #11
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okie......to clarify my post.

IMO.....without any nv30's out there and without doomIII out there we can only disscuss possibilities.....we have no clue HOW it WILL perform.

my point is that when the game and card is available no1 will ask about the paths used to give them better feeling while playing and IF nv30 can get more fps in it's own path ppl will see nv30 as better card........that's all.

btw.....i'll repeat that part about JC saying that nv30 is twice faster when using it's own path
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Old 02-27-03, 02:36 AM   #12
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Give me a break peopple...

1. There is no way the Nv30 is running enything but the Nv20 build in that alpha leak. Becuas thats the only Nvidia path in there at that point. meaning 12bit Fixed Function Vertex processing and PS 1.1 support. Vs, ATi running in FP 24 mode, and high percision.

2. I happen to know for a fact that Several of the key R300 fetures were not implimented into Doom-III until a couple months ago. Like For instance Doubble sided Stencil support.

3. I have been told that the current build of doom-III is VASTLY more complex than the E3 Alpha. In some scenes it actually has *up to* 100x the Overdraw of Quake 3. Due to various lighting effects being used.

This is another example of sub-standard Reviewers offering misleading information to the public. Neither they nor anyone else has ANY business posting benchmarks from a hacked together unfinished ALPHA verion of Doom-III.

Not that it suprises me looking at some of the other things they state in that *review*.
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