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Old 11-09-06, 12:34 PM   #1
someone2000
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Default nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

I'd like to thank Nvidia for wasting another hour of my life this
morning ! I am pretty sure that if it wasn't for Nvidia and their
stupid, idiotic driver system that I could have saved enough time in the
last 2 years to go on a week's vacation !

Yesterday I absentmindedly ran "yum update". Stupid me, I didn't watch
it and apparently a new kernel got installed (2835).

When I rebooted this morning, startx wouldn't run without a bunch of
errors ! Hmmm... uname -a tells me, surprise, we are now running kernel
2835 ! Yippee !

No problem I think, I'll just reboot with 2798 and get to work. So I do
reboot, but something is messed up with X, startx gives me a bunch of
errors. The Nvidia driver is broken for 2798 too.

So, I decide to rebuild the driver for kernel 2798. After all, I built
the Nvidia driver for 2798 only a couple weeks ago.

So I cd to my Nvidia installer directory, which one HAS to have if one
is running an Nvidia card ! I do the ./NIDIA*8776.run thing and, of
course the driver won't build ! What else is new ! Then I remember
that I had to give it a kernel path last time. So it takes me 10
minutes to figure out that.

The driver still won't build ! Complaining about the stupid config.h
problem again ! I go into the source and put in a dummy config.h file
and it still won't build. UGGGHHH (At his point I need to point out
the total stupidity of a Linux user needing to edit source code to get a
driver to build let alone RUN !)

I notice in the directory that I also have the 9625 version of the
Nvidia installer. I try that and it fails too.

About this time I'm thinking that the Nvidia build should work for
kernel 2835. So I reboot with that kernel and try both installers
again, with no success !

And at this point I should point out that for some reason the Nvidia
install script stalls on my computer from time to time. So I have to
ctrl C it and rerun it once in a while.

So, then I decide that I am being silly trying to build the driver in
the first place as I've heard great things about livna and they have a
driver prebuilt. So I do a "yum install nvidia" and "yum install
module-nvidia" of course if fails. I've got the wrong package name. So
I shut down Linux and boot XP and go searching on the web to find that
the package name is "kmod-nvidia". BTW: I consider it a complete
failure that I have to boot Windows to get my Linux box running !

So, I boot Linux with kernel 2798 and run "yum install kmod-nvidia". It
tells me one of the dependencies is kernel 2798, the one I am running !
I tell it to go ahead and install anyway. It fails because it finds the
2798 boot files already installed !

But I do notice that the file tag on the kmod-nvidia file reads "9629".
Because I had to fool around with Nvidia crap two weeks ago when I
upgraded to FC6, I know that the last available (beta) installer version
was 9625. (Lucky me !) So there must be a newer installer available.

So, I fire up lynx. Yeah lynx. I have no X running, remember ! Back
before I got smart about fooling around with nvidia stuff, I used to
fire up Windows, download the new installer, burn it to CDROM, reboot
Linux, copy the installer to my working directory, CHANGE THE
PERMISSIONS !, and run it. Now I run lynx. I'm so much smarter now,
thanks to Nvidia.

BTW: google doesn't work with lynx, nor does surfing some helpful
websites.

So, with lynx I navigate the nvidia site (a feat in itself) and find lo
and behold installer 9629 has been released. It takes 2 attempts to
download it because for some reason once in a while downloads from
nvidia don't work right with lynx. The first download is proceeding at
1KB/sec. I ctrl C that and navigate to the download again and the
second time it runs at 400KB/sec.

I get the installer downloaded, but decide I want to build for kernel
2835. So I reboot.

I run the installer. It complains about wanting the X.org SDK
installed. Then it complains about prior versions of nvidia drivers
being installed, possibly not from the installer. I OK those messages
and finally I have a driver that builds correctly. I reboot and I get a
graphical login screen. Success.

Total time wasted, over an hour. And this sort of game happens EVERY
time one upgrades a kernel !

Its funny, we have people in the Linux community debating about whether
Linux is ready for the desktop for the average user. With this sort of
issue still alive and well in Linux, the answer to that question is
absolutely NO !

In summary, I am totally frustrated with Nvidia with this driver
situation. I will never, ever buy a piece of Nvidia hardware again
unless this situation is rectified. I'd replace the Nvidia video driver
I have but its built into the laptop that I otherwise love.

Nvidia, its time to realease some code to the open source community or
suffer the consequences. The present situation is totally
unacceptable.
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Old 11-09-06, 12:44 PM   #2
netllama
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

Per the driver README, whenever you change kernels, you need to (re)install (at least) the nvidia kernel module. Most people reinstall the entire driver package.

The latest stable driver (1.0-9629) isn't afflicted by the kernel version specific issues you ran into with older drivers.

Problems with linvna (or their server's bandwidth) should be reported (and potentially blamed) to livna. NVIDIA has no control over how 3rd parties choose to repackage or provide the driver.

Thanks for your feedback,
Lonni
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Old 11-09-06, 01:02 PM   #3
energyman76b
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

so you did an update without looking at the updates first.

Nobody to blame besides of you.

Oh, and if X was so important for you, why didn't you just change 'nvidia' to 'nv'?

At least the nv driver is enough for surfing and everything besides 3d games.

So nobody to blame besides yourself.
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Old 11-09-06, 02:05 PM   #4
majoridiot
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

i agree whole-heartedly that the driver install situation is less than ideal and that linux is NOWHERE NEAR being usable for the average user.

it's a shame that things get so muddled with all of the various distros, etc. i know that after the newest ubuntu install, i can't build the nvidia driver because of running at the incorrect "run level". "telinit 3" (the required remedy) only sends ubuntu out of recovery console and back into gnome... so until i can find the time to sort this out, no new dirver builds for me.

there has GOT to be a more sensible way of keeping this reasonably usable for the average user. although i am new to linux, i a far from a noob computer-wise... and although i do love linux, the frustration level is disheartening and seemingly simple things can be inordinately confusing.

i know it HAS to be hard for nvidia to keep this as simple as possible across distros, etc... and they have all of my appreciation for supplying drivers to linux users when other vendors do not... but at the same time, driver builds/installations are problematic.
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Old 11-09-06, 02:14 PM   #5
energyman76b
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

Quote:
Originally Posted by majoridiot
i agree whole-heartedly that the driver install situation is less than ideal and that linux is NOWHERE NEAR being usable for the average user.
the average user? You mean the person that has to install 4-5 drivers, some incompatible to each other in windows? You mean the average windows user, who buys at least one monthly magazine full of registry hacks and hints how to get rid of trojans? The average user, that has to set up a firewall, virus scanner and at least two adware/spyware scanners?

Compared to the mess that windows is, is linux a heaven of easy usage.

It is different, not harder. And it is especially not hard to read the README and follow three easy steps, that are explained in DETAIL.

People who are too stupid or to lazy to read an easy README shouldn't even use a computer at all.

So stop this nonesense. Windows is much harder to setup and use than linux.


Quote:
Originally Posted by majoridiot
it's a shame that things get so muddled with all of the various distros, etc. i know that after the newest ubuntu install, i can't build the nvidia driver because of running at the incorrect "run level". "telinit 3" (the required remedy) only sends ubuntu out of recovery console and back into gnome... so until i can find the time to sort this out, no new dirver builds for me.

there has GOT to be a more sensible way of keeping this reasonably usable for the average user. although i am new to linux, i a far from a noob computer-wise... and although i do love linux, the frustration level is disheartening and seemingly simple things can be inordinately confusing.

i know it HAS to be hard for nvidia to keep this as simple as possible across distros, etc... and they have all of my appreciation for supplying drivers to linux users when other vendors do not... but at the same time, driver builds/installations are problematic.

first: there are easy HOWTOs even for the most braindead distro (which is coincidental ubuntu). If you can't read it: your fault.

second: only because some distros are braindead, not all distros are. You don't blame windows 2000 for problems with XP or ME, do you?

third: it is easy and reasonable usable for the average user or even newbie. The problem are 'experienced' windows 'powerusers' who think that with their windows knowledge there shouldn't be any problems, and who refuse to read Howto's and README's.

NEWSFLASH: Linux is not Windows.


So stop with your nonesense.
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Old 11-09-06, 02:17 PM   #6
pest_789
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

elinks is a better lynx too...

I used to have the mindset where I would have agreed with you. Now I understand that if my Windows install was as badly screwed up as your Linux install got, I'd have had no recourse but to pop in the installer CD and HOPE that a 'r'epair from the first screen would fix the problem. With linux it's a piece of cake to switch xorg.conf to use a different driver, or use a text-based browser to download a fix. I've had to install a new copy of Windows to fix WINDOWS before! Just TRY and get a network connection working from a dos/win98 boot disk.
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Old 11-09-06, 02:30 PM   #7
arokh
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

And now you wasted more of your time making this non-sense post. nvidia is not to blame for these (user) errors. You are entirely correct in that Linux distributions needs to handle these situations better, but please place the blame in the right place...

I understand that not everybody has the knowledge of a system administrator, but at least you seem to be able to get around a Linux system ok. If I were you, the next time something this happens, make a post in your distributions online forums, and learn the way this kind of issue is fixed. It really is very simple (not user friendly, just simple).
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Old 11-09-06, 02:45 PM   #8
Robster
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

This forum should have a "funniest posts" section, where threads like this can be kept for the entertainment of future generations.

You've just described in detail your distributions's inability to manage its kernel releases, and your inability to solve problems (even when you've solved them before!)

1): you ran an update and "didn't notice" that a new kernel got installed. How is this nvidia's fault?

2) "something is messed up with X, startx gives me a bunch of
errors"... well, no-one, including nvidia, can help with a problem when that's all the description you give.

3) It took you 10 minutes to remember that you had to give the installer a kernel path last time? How is this nvidia's fault?

4) The config.h file issue was created by a change in the kernel, which nvidia wasn't warned about in advance. And you expect nvidia drivers which were released before that change to work? Do you have any crystal balls for sale?

5) "So I reboot with that kernel and try both installers
again, with no success !" - again, how can anyone help you, with such a description of the problem?

6) Having a package named "kmod-nvidia" is the decision of your distro. nvidia has nothing to do with it.

7) I have lynx version 2.8.6rel.2. It works just great with google.

You need to make a decision here: if you're going to maintain your computer with the packages provided by your distribution, then don't install software outside of the package manager. If there are problems with installing packages, then complain to your distro, not to nvidia who have no control over it!

On the other hand, if you're going to maintain your computer by manually installing software, then you're going to have to get your hands dirty (by editing code etc) every now and then. Linux is always changing, and that always means that sometimes things break.

Quote:
Originally Posted by someone2000
In summary, I am totally frustrated with Nvidia with this driver
situation. I will never, ever buy a piece of Nvidia hardware again
unless this situation is rectified. I'd replace the Nvidia video driver
I have but its built into the laptop that I otherwise love.

Nvidia, its time to realease some code to the open source community or
suffer the consequences. The present situation is totally
unacceptable.
Ah, the inevitable veiled threats. You're complaining about issues that aren't caused by nvidia and can't be solved by nvidia! If I were nvidia, I wouldn't be unhappy to lose customers like you.
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Old 11-09-06, 02:49 PM   #9
Dies
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

Well, I hate to sound like a fanboy but if you don't like it don't use it, simple.
But to complain as if you had paid good money for this software seems a little out of line to me. I'm just glad that Nvidia is actively working on driver's for Linux ( something they're not obligated to do considering the size of the market when compared to Windows ) and I think that in a short time we'll probably have more features available to us than Windows does, I hope.
Also the fact that there are so many different distros that tend to do little things differently complicates things. But regardless every installation has dependencies and I've never had any problems satisfying this installers deps using yum. Aside from the fact that these things should be present on your system anyway.
I've used both the kmod packages from Livna and the Nvidia installer with no problems, but for some strange reason I prefer the Nvidia installer, go figure.
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Old 11-09-06, 03:00 PM   #10
HankNV
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

Hey, Nvidia has posted the best performing drivers I've ever seen for any chipset on Linux.

But they don't have near the development team because they have chosen to not open their source code to the open source development community for their own reasons. Nevertheless, their developers are doing an outstanding job.

But griping is not a way to get things done. Use a few kind words, buddy, before you make your next 'constructive' comments. I've gotten my Nvidia (MX400) to work, howbeit with the AGP disabled: and the driver still outperforms the similarly rated ATI (8500QX) card with AGP support using Linux' Direct Rendering Infrastructure (DRI).

Hank
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Old 11-09-06, 03:44 PM   #11
Cambo
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

Quote:
Originally Posted by majoridiot
it's a shame that things get so muddled with all of the various distros, etc. i know that after the newest ubuntu install, i can't build the nvidia driver because of running at the incorrect "run level". "telinit 3" (the required remedy) only sends ubuntu out of recovery console and back into gnome... so until i can find the time to sort this out, no new dirver builds for me.
Here's how I get around the 'telinit 3' problem;

Boot into Ubuntu as normal, logging in on my normal account

Open a terminal, and type 'sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop'

Press Ctrl-Alt-F1 to go from VT7 to VT1 (X uses VT7, and no login prompt appears here)

Login in to my normal account at the text login prompt

type 'sudo bash' (neat trick to get you a root shell)

'cd' to the folder with the downloaded driver file

'./NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-9742-pkg1.run' (or whatever driver file you downloaded)

Follow the onscreen instruction, and you should get everything set up fine.

'/etc/init.d/gdm start' will restart X for you

If you are using a different window manager, you will probably need to change the 'gdm stop/start' lines to suit - ie. kdm for KDE.

Hope that helps



Cambo
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Old 11-09-06, 04:10 PM   #12
HankNV
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

Dittos on that /etc/init.d/gdm stop.

But one thing that annoys me is having the gdm (xdm, kdm, etc.) automatically start.

What I do is find the startup scripts and edit them so that the Display manager is not automatically started. In Debian the user is automatically set at runlevel 2.

You can the startup scripts for run level 2 in the /etc/rc2.d directory . You should find the symbolic link @S99gdm . Just delete it or rename it so that it will not be used. This really helps when testing out the new drivers in case you've got one that won't work for some reason. That way you won't waste a minute or two watching the screen try to boot into X when gdm starts.

Just use, as advised by the developers, startx -logverbose 5
Once you have the driver working, then use gdm as root: sudo gdm ( if you have the sudo package installed and setup).

Hank
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