Go Back   nV News Forums > Linux Support Forums > NVIDIA Linux

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-14-07, 02:39 AM   #37
pranay
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 24
Default Re: Linux + HDCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by PenGun
It's informative that none of the Mods have chimed in. I would avoid this too.
Any why would you avoid this? I just want to understand the whole logic behind the lack of Linux support...
pranay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-07, 03:59 AM   #38
xwred1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 23
Default Re: Linux + HDCP

It seems to me like just being able to put out an image at the proper res on an hdmi cable would be useful. Even if you'll never watch a Bluray or HDDVD disk on the thing.

I bet someone out there wishes he could plug his Linux box into his hdtv w/ hdmi.
xwred1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-07, 04:07 AM   #39
pe1chl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,026
Default Re: Linux + HDCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by pranay
Comming back to my question, dont the binary NVIDIA drivers satisfy this requirement.
Probably yes. But the X.Org server, the kernel, the video player all don't.
Even a binary driver (and the Nvidia driver not even is not all binary, there are interface modules that are delivered as source and compiled on the system when installed) can be modified e.g. to skip certain checks.

This is true for other systems as well, and that is why content protection has always failed until now. But recent versions like Vista have the capability to accept only signed drivers and other signed software and verify that an entire chain of sofware is untampered before working.

There is no such capability in Linux, and even if it would be added it would only be advisory in nature. For example, a banking application could verify that no trojans are present in its environment and present that information to the user to increase his trust in the program before inputting data.
For things like content protection this is less useful as it can be ripped out whenever the user likes so.
pe1chl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-07, 04:41 AM   #40
pranay
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 24
Default Re: Linux + HDCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by pe1chl
Probably yes. But the X.Org server, the kernel, the video player all don't.
Even a binary driver (and the Nvidia driver not even is not all binary, there are interface modules that are delivered as source and compiled on the system when installed) can be modified e.g. to skip certain checks.
Agreed and I am not saying a full HDCP chain is possible today on Linux but that should not stop me from outputting full-res HDCP encrypted DVI signal. Consider a Set Top Box equivalent using PC hardware. There are alternate means of securing the content inside the box, I want to force the graphics card to add HDCP on the output... I should be able to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pe1chl
This is true for other systems as well, and that is why content protection has always failed until now. But recent versions like Vista have the capability to accept only signed drivers and other signed software and verify that an entire chain of sofware is untampered before working.

There is no such capability in Linux, and even if it would be added it would only be advisory in nature. For example, a banking application could verify that no trojans are present in its environment and present that information to the user to increase his trust in the program before inputting data.
For things like content protection this is less useful as it can be ripped out whenever the user likes so.
I am not familiar with XP but drivers on XP seems to support HDCP and AFAIK XP does not have PVP/protected mode etc.


In my application I am able to secure the content on the PC platform using alternate means... the weak link is player to display signal connection. I am simply trying to use HDCP there. If putting this in the driver is an issue maybe NVIDIA could release a binary that force enables HDCP on the output.
pranay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-07, 06:14 AM   #41
Gusar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Default Re: Linux + HDCP

@pranay:
I'll say it again: Nvidia could maybe add support for this, but there is just no incentive for them to do so. If you want it, you'll need to pay lots of money to buy developer time from nvidia. Then again, maybe it's not possible at all because, as pe1chl said, nvidia may not get a license provide this in the linux driver.

I think you should start looking for a non-linux solution for your problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pe1chl
But recent versions like Vista have the capability to accept only signed drivers and other signed software and verify that an entire chain of sofware is untampered before working.
This has already been circumvented. And it will always be possible to circumvent it, until TPM chips come into play. And even then, people will figure out workarounds, you just can't put a lid on a generic machine that's capable of running anything.
This whole "protected video path" nonsense is defective by design, just like any form of DRM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pranay
the weak link is player to display signal connection
There will always be a weak link somewhere, DRM simply can't work.



Quote:
Originally Posted by xwred1
It seems to me like just being able to put out an image at the proper res on an hdmi cable would be useful. Even if you'll never watch a Bluray or HDDVD disk on the thing.
I bet someone out there wishes he could plug his Linux box into his hdtv w/ hdmi.
This is already possible today. You can even watch Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, because AACS has already been broken.
Code:
decrypthd /dev/scd0 /mnt/hddvd/ FEATURE_1.EVO -o | mplayer -demuxer mpegps -vc ffvc1 -
There you go. DecryptHD and more info are available at the doom9.org forums.
Gusar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-07, 12:21 PM   #42
pe1chl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,026
Default Re: Linux + HDCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by pranay
Agreed and I am not saying a full HDCP chain is possible today on Linux but that should not stop me from outputting full-res HDCP encrypted DVI signal. Consider a Set Top Box equivalent using PC hardware. There are alternate means of securing the content inside the box, I want to force the graphics card to add HDCP on the output... I should be able to do it.
I have read the entire thread again and I see I missed some crucial information in posting #13 that explains your intentions.

However, the argument probably remains the same: no license to implement HDCP outside specific platforms, so no go.
I agree with you and others that it is a futile attempt to secure content, because there will always be a hack, but the content providers think that by heavily licensing the entire thing (also seemingly unimportant parts like HDCP) they can keep control.
And probably this has some merit: as Linux is becoming more mainstream and distributors are now respectable companies instead of only groups of hobbyists, it is becoming more practical to keep things under control via licenses and law-based restrictions. Someone could implement HDCP but as soon as it would be part of a distribution by Novell, IBM, Nvidia or another big company they can use the legal system to combat it, or they can at least try. Even when the code remains available but is not included in any mainstream product, the large group of "followers" will no longer be able to play.

An example of the results of the licensing system: the new (and I think still not available) Linux-based HD DVB receiver from Dream Multimedia has no HDCP support either. They are unable to obtain a license. And as they distribute hardware, they cannot afford to sell unlicensed things as their merchandise will be forfeit by customs.
pe1chl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-07, 02:49 AM   #43
jalyst
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 83
Default Re: Linux + HDCP

But none of the new hdcp compliant displays "require" that HD content hitting them must come via HDCP, do they? Geez I hope not! I mean what about FTA DVB-T(HD) broadcasts that content owners don't care about protecting here in Oz? (yet). I hope (like some were suggesting earlier) that the displays don't tamper with the path before displaying HD content! I mean most of the stuff I wanna display will be content that was never encrypted with AACS in the 1st place so Id be peeved if I cant display that content just because its not coming via HDCP on my ubuntu + myth box! (yet to build)
jalyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-07, 05:56 AM   #44
Gusar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Default Re: Linux + HDCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst
But none of the new hdcp compliant displays "require" that HD content hitting them must come via HDCP, do they?
Of course not. How would you have a 1920x1200 desktop if HDCP was "required"? The only thing that cares about HDCP is the proprietary video player that is made obsolete by breaking AACS. So basically, HDCP is something you don't need to care about.
Gusar is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 07-01-07, 09:44 AM   #45
jalyst
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 83
Default Re: Linux + HDCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusar
Of course not. How would you have a 1920x1200 desktop if HDCP was "required"? The only thing that cares about HDCP is the proprietary video player that is made obsolete by breaking AACS. So basically, HDCP is something you don't need to care about.
sorry, I'm getting confused by pranay's line of debate. I can't understand why it's so important for him to have HDCP functional under linux if one can already decrypt and play content without having to funnel it via HDCP. Perhaps I've missed what he's getting at?

How much of a "pain in the arse" is it to play AACS content in Linux? Anyone actually tried? Have you got to 1st decrypt, re-master & then play, or is it all done on the fly with little noticeable effect? (provided you've got the grunt)

Guess I'll find out soon enough, building a myth + ubuntu box!!
jalyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-07, 02:42 PM   #46
Gusar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Default Re: Linux + HDCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst
sorry, I'm getting confused by pranay's line of debate. I can't understand why it's so important for him to have HDCP functional under linux if one can already decrypt and play content without having to funnel it via HDCP. Perhaps I've missed what he's getting at?
pranay is providing content to be played with his proprietary player (full of DRM no doubt) and wants this content to be additionally protected by HDCP. His issue has nothing to do with playing hd-dvd or blu-ray.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst
How much of a "pain in the arse" is it to play AACS content in Linux? Anyone actually tried? Have you got to 1st decrypt, re-master & then play, or is it all done on the fly with little noticeable effect? (provided you've got the grunt)
Both are possible. To decrypt and store the decrypted video on your hard disk, use DumpHD. For on-the-fly, I've provided the commandline a few posts up in this thread. Things are not fully there yet, mplayer is missing a few audio codecs, but they're coming - writing the e-ac3 decoder is being sponsored by Google Summer of Code.
Gusar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-07, 11:24 PM   #47
jalyst
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 83
Default Re: Linux + HDCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusar
pranay is providing content to be played with his proprietary player (full of DRM no doubt) and wants this content to be additionally protected by HDCP. His issue has nothing to do with playing hd-dvd or blu-ray.
Right so that's why he's so keen to get hdcp working, thanks for clearing that up!

Quote:
Both are possible. To decrypt and store the decrypted video on your hard disk, use DumpHD. For on-the-fly, I've provided the commandline a few posts up in this thread. Things are not fully there yet, mplayer is missing a few audio codecs, but they're coming - writing the e-ac3 decoder is being sponsored byGoogle Summer of Code.
Sweet, thanks for getting me up to speed, I cant wait to start tinkering!

cheers,
jed
jalyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Linux GTX 675M support geophph NVIDIA Linux 37 06-13-12 08:40 PM
295.59 (long-lived branch release) for Linux x86/x86_64 released artem NVIDIA Linux 0 06-11-12 12:25 PM
nVidia Linux drivers with Linux on Mac, help? Thetargos NVIDIA Linux 0 05-13-12 01:52 PM
Mandrake Linux 9.0 (Dolphin) now available | comments? volt General Linux 10 10-19-02 11:13 PM
Linux VS. Windows XP! XP wins! dostler NVIDIA Linux 20 09-15-02 04:47 PM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2014, nV News.