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View Poll Results: How long until the PS3 HD DVD addon comes out?
6 months 8 18.60%
12 months 10 23.26%
18 months 3 6.98%
24 months 22 51.16%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-08-06, 09:04 PM   #73
Lyme
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Default Re: Time till PS3 HD DVD addon

The Cell is a very powerful processor, but it really isn't suited for use as a video game processor. Anyway this brings up a very interesting point that has been stated elsewhere.. in this generation of video consoles 360, Wii, PS3, do you know who wins no matter the winners and losers? Thats right.. IBM wins. Why? All three CPU's are designed and made primarily by IBM.
So as anyone can find out the Wii, 360 and PS3 cpu's are all based upon IBM's PowerPC cpu architecture. Ignoring the Wii.
The 360 can be basicly described as three identical PowerPC cpu cores on one chip with a lot of the single core multi-threading functionality removed. The basic "theme" is that most games are very linear in code execution and seldom use more than a handful of threads, as such having three processors doing somewhat linear multitasking is more than adequate and the reduced complexity makes processor manufacturing easier and cheaper.
The Cell processor on the other hand has a significantly different theme to it, it can be considered one master processor with a large number of stream processors. In all reports the master powerpc core on the die is more complex than a single 360core but each of the stream processors can be considered greatly simplified. The stream processors are much simpler than the master and have been greatly tweaked to perform SIMD instructions (Single Instruction Multiple Data). SIMD processors are a great boon for those doing digital signal processing and a number of other of complex computing tasks (ie: folding@home) and graphics. For this purpose the cell stream processors are extremely suited for being a DVR, a digital receiver processor, or for offloading graphics calculation. However due to this non-typical makeup of the Cell processor development work for it is quite different than the more traditional approach you can take with the Xenon.
When it comes down to it as both processors are based upon the PowerPC, which is a RISC based design. The burden of tweaking code for performance and execution is shouldered firmly on the software development tools. Which has the effect of making the very powerful Cell processor very difficult to program for and the Xenon significantly easier, the reason boiling down to Microsoft is a software company and does that extremely well, Sony isn't. That is illustrated in the development kits for both.
Or if you wish, while the Xenon can be described as a less powerful cpu it is vastly easier to coax performance out of it, the much more powerful Cell processor unfortunately makes it extremely difficult to squeeze that same performance from it. In direct comparison there have been many cpus that have been extremely powerful (ie: the DEC Alpha) and yet the cpu that makes it easy to do the job wins (x86).

So lightman is correct that the Cell is a very powerful processor, however evilchris being evil is correct in that the Cell still sucks.

Ref Cell processor:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/cell-1.ars
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/cell-2.ars

Ref Xenon (xbox 360) processor:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed.../xbox360-1.ars
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed.../xbox360-2.ars
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Old 12-08-06, 09:57 PM   #74
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Default Re: Time till PS3 HD DVD addon

Crap options in the poll. Where is the "never" option.
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Old 12-08-06, 10:15 PM   #75
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Default Re: Time till PS3 HD DVD addon

Didn't vote. However, I think Sony will release a product into a market where they can make money and/or retain brand recognition, whether it be BD or HDDVD. I suppose this would include the PS3, too, but that may be stretching it

I also feel this thread is a classic example of people feeling the need to validate their opinions. Opinions are great, but when accusations are thrown around, it starts to feel like a presidential debate where a lot things are said but nothing is accomplished. But I digress; that's what forums are for!
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Old 12-09-06, 04:08 AM   #76
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Default Re: Time till PS3 HD DVD addon

Great post Lyme; it should be noted that the Cell architecture in itself is nothing new; there have been other designs that grouped a general purpose core with multiple specialized processors.

The fact that only a few people know they exist tells how well they did. Such architectures have been heavily restricted in the past by transistor budget and probably they still are.

It's also worth to remeber that each SPE cannot access memory directly. Such a limitation isn't critical while running heavily parallelized number crunching algorithms in which the processing time is much longer than the time spent transferring or waiting for the data. But in a multithreaded, multitasking environment where all the processes are interwinded and must freqeuntly exchange data between themselves it becomes a major limitation both to the usefulness of the additional SPEs and to the efficiency of code.

Some programmers have hinted that the SPEs spend more time idle waiting for the data while the PPE is overburdened with the task of running the main thread while constantly having to shuffle the work done by the SPEs. I woulnd't be surprised if many multiplatform games will end up using only the PPE on the PS3 because of lack of time/resources to rewrite from the ground up the game code. It will be a situation similar to what plagued the Sega Saturn. First party games looked great because they were written to take advantage of the twin processors architecture and other peculiarities of the machine; all the rest used only a single CPU with mediocre results.
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Old 12-09-06, 08:42 AM   #77
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Default Re: Time till PS3 HD DVD addon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allaahu_Akbar
Crap options in the poll. Where is the "never" option.
Afraid Sony will see what your vote is and strip you of your fanboy status?
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Old 12-09-06, 10:08 AM   #78
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Default Re: Time till PS3 HD DVD addon

An HD DVD addon will never come out for PS3, simply because when Blu-Ray fails in 1-2 yrs it will probably be more practical to simply to buy a $299 standalone HD DVD player.
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Old 12-09-06, 11:54 AM   #79
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Default Re: Time till PS3 HD DVD addon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda_fan
Afraid Sony will see what your vote is and strip you of your fanboy status?
Nope. A PS3 HD DVD addon will never happen.
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Old 12-09-06, 03:55 PM   #80
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Default Re: Time till PS3 HD DVD addon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allaahu_Akbar
Nope. A PS3 HD DVD addon will never happen.
Yes it will. Sony is not stupid enough (but as of late it wouldn't surprise me) to throw money away once BD as a format completely goes under.
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Old 12-09-06, 04:08 PM   #81
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Default Re: Time till PS3 HD DVD addon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda_fan
Yes it will. Sony is not stupid enough (but as of late it wouldn't surprise me) to throw money away once BD as a format completely goes under.
I think Sony is out of touch enough to still refuse to give in and admit they were (are) wrong, and switch formats.
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Old 12-09-06, 04:10 PM   #82
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Default Re: Time till PS3 HD DVD addon

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOfEvil
I think Sony is out of touch enough to still refuse to give in and admit they were (are) wrong, and switch formats.
like I said, it wouldn't surprise me considering how idiotic they've been as of late, but bottom line is they are still a corporation, and corporations have to make money. They ain't gonna make money off of BD, that's for sure.
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Old 12-09-06, 04:31 PM   #83
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Default Re: Time till PS3 HD DVD addon

I own a PS3 and have the 360 with the HD addon. I want to say that Sony will not let this format die. They will keep releasing their movies on it and screw up both formats. My problem with this war is gamers think they will help win this war when in reality it's the average joe consumer. If you have a HDTV then you most likely have the HD channels and what I see on these HD channels like Discovery HD and HD Net is them pimping blu-ray like crazy. Also when you go to retailers they will try to get you to buy the blu-ray player since they make more money off of it. They will point out to the customers about the amount of Stuidio support blu-ray has.
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Old 12-09-06, 04:36 PM   #84
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Default Re: Time till PS3 HD DVD addon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo 13
I own a PS3 and have the 360 with the HD addon. I want to say that Sony will not let this format die. They will keep releasing their movies on it and screw up both formats. My problem with this war is gamers think they will help win this war when in reality it's the average joe consumer. If you have a HDTV then you most likely have the HD channels and what I see on these HD channels like Discovery HD and HD Net is them pimping blu-ray like crazy. Also when you go to retailers they will try to get you to buy the blu-ray player since they make more money off of it. They will point out to the customers about the amount of Stuidio support blu-ray has.
funny. HD-DVD doesn't have to advertise worth squat, and sales wise it is beating the crap out of bluray.
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