Languages you know

[mcolbourn]

I am going to embarrass myself now the only two I know are:

Qbasic
Foxpro

[superklye]

Originally Posted by bugmeplz

please, do enlighten me on why java sucks? i realize its just your opinion, but what are your reasons?

Ridiculous bloat.

[bugmeplz]

Originally Posted by superklye

Ridiculous bloat.

define "bloat"?

[buffbiff21]

Originally Posted by bugmeplz

define "bloat"?

Every conceivable resource hog.

[Greeno]

Originally Posted by Daneel Olivaw

Where's the french from?

My parents live in France :/

[nekrosoft13]

I know English and Polish

[bugmeplz]

Originally Posted by buffbiff21

Every conceivable resource hog.

So, you do not have the JRE installed? Is that correct? (In other words, what you are talking about is Sun's Java VM - which is only one component of the language platform and nearly everyone has it installed and running - "bloat" and all.)

[DaveW]

Java has been a painful experience for me, but thats mostly due to the earlier versions of Tomcat and Axis I had to work with and not the language itself.

BTW I think the Java redistributable is smaller than the .NET one.

[jcrox]

Originally Posted by six_storm

My teachers say that COBOL is still being used like crazy . . .

My school dropped the programmer/analysis degree siting no one has much interest in COBOL anymore.

This semester I have:
Advanced Java: Servlets and JavaServer Pages
Advanced VB.NET
Advanced Web Development: XML w/css & xsl, JavaScript, AJAX

I like Java so far but it really does seem that (what we've learned so far anyway) everything we've done in Java we can do in VB.NET and do it faster and easier. Doesn't help that the person running the Java program is a tard and keeps giving us project and exercise instructions that are written wrong and example code that doesn't compile.

[rhink]

Originally Posted by buffbiff21

Every conceivable resource hog.

A lot of the perceived bloat comes from craptacular GUI API's like swing. And memory usage isn't a huge deal anyways, unless you're in an embedded environment, how much does another gig of ram cost anyways?

It's certainly possible to write Java applications that aren't massive memory hogs... some of it comes from lazy programming style, people that are unfamiliar with pointers (and everything in java is a damn pointer, except primitives) and memory management (they like to tell you java takes care of this itself, but that sort of thinking breeds memory leaks because you figure the GC has it and you don't null pointers when you're done with them so the GC can clean them up, or never free up a listener, crap like that).

[rhink]

Originally Posted by jcrox

I like Java so far but it really does seem that (what we've learned so far anyway) everything we've done in Java we can do in VB.NET and do it faster and easier. Doesn't help that the person running the Java program is a tard and keeps giving us project and exercise instructions that are written wrong and example code that doesn't compile.

Yeah, but .NET means you're forever tied to a Microsoft platform. Yeah, Java ties you to sun, too, heh... but at least that gives you a lot more options on platform and hardware... I guess if you really want to be platform agnostic, you should probably just use a compiled language and build abstraction layers around any system API references and be prepared to recompile. There are some things about .NET that are pretty slick, the concept of compiling every language down to the same intermediate language is nifty.

[uOpt]

Originally Posted by rhink

A lot of the perceived bloat comes from craptacular GUI API's like swing. And memory usage isn't a huge deal anyways, unless you're in an embedded environment, how much does another gig of ram cost anyways?

And I put in the 5th gig of RAM into my socket 939 box or the 9th GB of RAM into my socket 775 box - how?

Originally Posted by rhink

It's certainly possible to write Java applications that aren't massive memory hogs... some of it comes from lazy programming style, people that are unfamiliar with pointers (and everything in java is a damn pointer, except primitives) and memory management (they like to tell you java takes care of this itself, but that sort of thinking breeds memory leaks because you figure the GC has it and you don't null pointers when you're done with them so the GC can clean them up, or never free up a listener, crap like that).

Sure, but the problem is that many Java libraries, and not only Swing and not only GUI libraries feel free to breathe a whole lot and waste memory on a grand scale. Then there's the JVM coming in on top and doing JIT which isn't exactly stealthy either.

Also, down to the metal - Java does not have arrays of instances of your user-defined structs. So if you want that you can either take the hit (and the hit can be big on a 64 bit system because the pointer in the array is 64 bits when the fields in your data structure might only be 32 combined).

Or you take the abstraction hit and open-code, use arrays of base data types instead of compound own data structures. That's what most of these useless language benchmarks do that end up showing Java is on par with C++. But in practice this is a nightmare. Worst of all, since Java have neither a macro system nor real generic programming you have no syntactic method at all to hide some of these optimizations.

So in practice people just take the memory hit, along with the pointer indirection hit. And Java programs are slow, only language benchmarks are fast for Java.