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Old 01-06-07, 03:47 AM   #13
PenGun
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Default Re: Vista trouble for NVidia LinuxDrivers?

HDCP is not turned on yet so it'll play anywhere. That will change in 2008 I believe.

It's already broken. Also the 75 Gig I have already is mostly Euro HDTV and it's unencumbered. All those HD BBC documentrys at 1080i and 720p are stunning.

All the HD movies seem to be available in either 10+ gig .ts or 4 gig or so H264 mpeg4s, I don't care much 'bout Hollywood's output myself . As the Inq said it's over and the pirates won ... again.
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Old 01-06-07, 05:22 AM   #14
Perty
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Default Re: Vista trouble for NVidia LinuxDrivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xevious
People seem to be confusing HDMI and HDCP. HDCP is the encryption one which is gonna cause problems for us. HDMI is just DVI with digital audio basically two things combined and its a different type of cable and at the moment I already have a hardware setup for HDCP but not software. Both my 8800 GTX and my Dell 3007WFP should support HDCP I believe. Only the newer monitors/vid cards support this.
You mean that there is two different cables of the HDMI and the HDCP? That's not what I have learnt. The HDMI is the cable/connector with the HDCP support but many cards/monitors isn't conforming to the HDCP standard yet to be able to play hd content.

So, you can't avoid the HDCP when you buy a HDMI card/Tv/Monitor etc... (Which is hd ready).

/Perty
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Old 01-06-07, 05:51 AM   #15
pe1chl
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Default Re: Vista trouble for NVidia LinuxDrivers?

HDMI is an interface spec that is very much like DVI but has added support for digital audio over the same connection.

HDCP is a content protection scheme that scrambles the signals between card and display so you cannot "tap" into those and record the signal on another medium.
(as if anyone wanted to do that. this is a very wideband signal that you would not want to copy. the interesting signal to copy is the MPEG1/2/4 stream, not the HDMI stream)
So HDCP is not a cable.

Agreements between media distributors and manufactorers of playback hardware and software can mandate that highdef content can only be played back on HDCP capable displays. But Linux is not much affected by this, because the Linux world has very little chance to get such an agreement at all, so Linux will be unable to playback highdef content anyway.

In a legal way, that is. It may well be that methods are found to playback protected HD material on a Linux machine, but that will not be covered under legal agreements and it is difficult to predict what kinds of restrictions will still be there.
(that will also depend on the actual workaround that is devised)
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Old 01-06-07, 11:30 AM   #16
zbiggy
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Default Re: Vista trouble for NVidia LinuxDrivers?

I tried to say that I like DVI-D because it has no capability to support HDCP now and in the future too. Having HDMI I can not be sure if in future driver the software will not try to control my monitor by turning it off when driver will start to predict if the picture I display is protected or not. Computers can make mistakes. I just only do not want to be a victim of that failure if I do not have to.

Merging video and audio wires into one HDMI cable is wrong in my opinion. Audio card and Graphics card are separate devices. High quality audio and video hardware too.
Separate cables has less impact on each other.
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Old 01-06-07, 12:17 PM   #17
pe1chl
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Default Re: Vista trouble for NVidia LinuxDrivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zbiggy
Merging video and audio wires into one HDMI cable is wrong in my opinion. Audio card and Graphics card are separate devices. High quality audio and video hardware too.
Separate cables has less impact on each other.
This is not how HDMI works. I hope you will not be worried any further when you hear that video and audio are not only sent through the same cable, they are even travelling along the same wires!

A HDMI cable is more like a network connection. There are 3 TMDS links in a HDMI cable, and the video and audio are sent along those links in a time-division-multiplexed way as packets. Just like audio and video are multiplexed in DVB streams. There is no influence between the two.

There should also be no need for a separate sound card in a PC HDMI system. Sending audio over a digital link is not a function that requires a separate card. It is just a networking function where digital datawords are sent over a serial cable, unlike a traditional soundcard that does D-to-A conversion and can be of better or worse quality.
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Old 01-06-07, 02:53 PM   #18
Perty
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Default Re: Vista trouble for NVidia LinuxDrivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pe1chl
HDMI is an interface spec that is very much like DVI but has added support for digital audio over the same connection.

HDCP is a content protection scheme that scrambles the signals between card and display so you cannot "tap" into those and record the signal on another medium.
(as if anyone wanted to do that. this is a very wideband signal that you would not want to copy. the interesting signal to copy is the MPEG1/2/4 stream, not the HDMI stream)
So HDCP is not a cable.

Agreements between media distributors and manufactorers of playback hardware and software can mandate that highdef content can only be played back on HDCP capable displays. But Linux is not much affected by this, because the Linux world has very little chance to get such an agreement at all, so Linux will be unable to playback highdef content anyway.

In a legal way, that is. It may well be that methods are found to playback protected HD material on a Linux machine, but that will not be covered under legal agreements and it is difficult to predict what kinds of restrictions will still be there.
(that will also depend on the actual workaround that is devised)
Ok. But my point is by buying a gfxcard with a HDMI output there will be functionality in that card to enable and take usage of HDCP (If used on a Vista box for example). And that functionality is probobly not you just set a bit and disable and all that functionality and the card is working as a non HDCP compliant card.

The design of the card is also affected by the HDCP where as I showed before that the recomendations is made, not for the customer best or the best designs, but for the protection of content.

All this is making drivers more complex and Linux could probobly be affected by this.

And according to ATI (the quotest in http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt ) their view is that the drivers will be more complex and more expensive to develop.

Anyone from NVidia which has any input?

/Perty
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Old 01-06-07, 03:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Vista trouble for NVidia LinuxDrivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pe1chl
I think it is perfectly clear that there will be no (legal) HD-DVD or Blu-Ray playback in Linux. But that is not much different from the DVD situation, where we also can playback only because the system was hacked, and this is not legal eiter. Maybe (probably) the HD system will be hacked as well.
I really don't think that this is a violation of copyright law.
I'd like to see a case where the court identified playback of a legally bought DVD as illegal.
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Old 01-06-07, 05:19 PM   #20
pe1chl
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Default Re: Vista trouble for NVidia LinuxDrivers?

LubosD: there is a difference between "common sense" and what is written in law these days.
Surely, one would expect that it would be legal to buy something and then do whatever one likes to do with it. However, this is no longer the case. Persistent lobbying from the powerful media industry has tricked the governments of many countries into legislation that directly prohibits you from doing things that this industry does not like. This not only includes playback but even attempting to construct software that does so.
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Old 01-07-07, 07:20 AM   #21
zbiggy
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Default Re: Vista trouble for NVidia LinuxDrivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pe1chl
There should also be no need for a separate sound card in a PC HDMI system. Sending audio over a digital link is not a function that requires a separate card. It is just a networking function where digital datawords are sent over a serial cable, unlike a traditional soundcard that does D-to-A conversion and can be of better or worse quality.
You mean HDMI capable gfx cards has integrated sound? If gfx card has HDMI connector it must take audio singnal somwhere from PC to muliplex it with video and send on wires. At present a PC has GPU for graphics and ihda/ac97 codec for sound. Audio chip is still required to do SRC and mixing to meet HDMI format requirements. But I have not read yet about codecs sending audio data to gfx chip for hdmi use.
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Old 01-07-07, 07:27 AM   #22
pe1chl
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Default Re: Vista trouble for NVidia LinuxDrivers?

When the videocard does not do sound, it will not be possible to use sound over HDMI.
Maybe they want you to run a second set of wires, I don't know.
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Old 01-07-07, 08:38 AM   #23
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Default Re: Vista trouble for NVidia LinuxDrivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pe1chl
When the videocard does not do sound, it will not be possible to use sound over HDMI.
Maybe they want you to run a second set of wires, I don't know.
Please tell that to my laptop then
Sound works just fine over the HDMI. I must admit I didn't expect it to, but it worked.
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Old 01-07-07, 09:42 AM   #24
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Default Re: Vista trouble for NVidia LinuxDrivers?

Some countries will support free playback devices, and the do-what-you-want-with-what-you-buy. From there may surge the linux player for realtime HDCP stripped content. I am curious what will go on when they will switch on the big button for HDCP. Already a great lot of teasing content is ripped to the leech sites.
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