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Old 01-16-07, 07:34 PM   #97
CaptNKILL
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Default Re: Wonder how well you PC will run Crysis

Actually this just seems like the same flame war thats been going on for a couple weeks now in various other threads.

Why are people still trying to convince icecold of anything related to PC performance and graphics? If he hasn't agreed in the 5 other threads where the same screenshots were posted, he isn't going to agree this time.

I'm not trying to play forum police, but come on guys... it seems like every interesting thread in this section ends up getting dragged into this ongoing crap.
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Old 01-16-07, 08:16 PM   #98
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Default Re: Wonder how well you PC will run Crysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemed
Icecold, you are forgetting- I'm using a socket 754 3400- yes a faster CPU would boost my framerates, substantially. If I were running an E6600 at about 3.5Ghz I'm betting I'd be getting no less than 30fps. That is only a 6fps increase, and it is along the lines of what everybody else gets with an E6600 @ 3.5Ghz and a single GTS.

Icecold, I'll throw this at you another way:

If today's games are capable of bringing the 8800's to thier knees, then how will it be possible for them to play any DX10 game? Okay, even allowing for a 20% gain (the most you'll see from DX10) if you add 20% to let's say 20 you only get an fps of 24. Going by what you are saying (following your logic), the 8800 series will completely crawl and flop when playing any next-gen game.

I mean, if FEAR can bring the 8800GTX to the teens in some spots- CrySis should crawl. Lower the settings? You then run into your CPU bottleneck.

Alan Wake will probably do okay, the graphics aren't nearly as extreme as those of Crysis. But how about Interstellar Marines? Another game that will crawl- according to your logic.

Icecold, what has been pointed out to you before, but you completely blow off, is that the 8800 series is not perfect, i.e. there are still flaws with it. Such flaws as offering poor performance where they shouldn't.

A few posts ago I mentioned that in FEAR I'd walk into a completely empty room with nothing extremely graphically intensive happening- yet my FPS would drop quite a bit, and my character would barely move forward, as in it was like he ran into an invisible wall.

Are you to tell my that his is merely a scene to complexe for the 8800? Okay, then explain to my why my 7600GTs in SLi could burn through the same scene at more than double the fps. This is where either FEAR needs a patch or the drivers for the 8800 need some more work. Or it could be both. This happens when you are an early adopter- you run into the early problems of the new hardware. Do you also realise that BFME (the first one) runs about about 15fps average on my SLi'd 8800GTSs (1920x1440, 16xAA, 16xAF, max in-game options) and sometimes dips to single digits, yet with my SLi's 7600GTs it would remain at 30fps constantly (literally never dipping). No, BFME is not taxing my GTSs, it is a software glitch where BFME either needs a patch or something in the 8800 drivers needs fixing (or both).

There is no possible way that two 7600GTs can match or exceed the performance of two 8800GTSs. Yet at some times they do (the odd occurance in FEAR and BFME I mentioned). This is just cause of a software bug, and has NOTHING to do with the hardware.

Now, you mentioned that there are places in FEAR where absolutely NOTHING is going on, but your FPS tanks- I'd chalk that up to a software bug. Why, cause I'd bet you are experiecing the same thing I am. And again, I never experienced it with my SLi'd 7600GTs. No, the SLi'd 7600GTs aren't faster than my two GTSs or your single GTX. It is a software problem, not a hardware problem.

Now, I have provided multiple bechmarks (a couple posts back) that even go into the CPU scaling of the 8800s. They compare stock CPU speeds to oc'd speeds and show the results. Grated, never is there a gain of 20fps or greater, but in many cases there is 10fps (and occassionally more). Xion even posted the differeces between his CPU at stock and then oc'd while running only one GTX to show you the difference. There IS a difference. Not one of 20+fps, but still a difference none the less.

With my CPU (a socket 754 3400), I'd probably experience an average gain of about 10-15fps in my games if I went with an E6600 and ran it at 3.5GHz. Benchmarks get about that much over what I'm getting with my two GTSs. So that is why I know that for my setup there is a huge CPU bottleneck. And even common sense will tell you that a socket 754 3400 is not enough CPU for dual 8800s.

Icecold, I'm not trying to say that the 8800's are invincible. But I am saying they perform better than you seem to believe they do. You refuse to OC your processor to check for any possible improvement. Yet we have shown you that there is improvemet (in some cases near 10fps). So, I assume that you do not know how to overclock your processor, and are afraid to learn. This is understandable- with how much $$$ your setup must have cost I'd hate to fry anything due to an OC gone wrong.

You refuse to try vsync with triple buffering to see if that helps your FPS any, as it is known that in certain games it will aid fps.

Icecold, you have, for the most part, convinced me that you want the 8800s to perform as you believe that they do. No ammount of evidence to the contrary will make you think otherwise. Even though going by your logic last generation products (even the mainstream and not high end) can match and outperform the 8800s- that just isn't even logical but you seem to like that idea a lot (even though you have never come straight out to claim that, your arguments imply that).

Icecold, this is a debate that would never end. I could come to you in person, and show you that your rig is capable of better fps than you claim- you could see it with your own eyes, yet I doubt you'd believe it. And that, my friend, is sad.

You keep claiming that you don't want a console, yet you are practically having wet-dreams over the 360 and spit upon the 8800s. You go against everythig every other member and 90% or all reviews say. Yet you still feel you are right.

This post should be a huge indicator of how blind you are:





Bokishi even stated he has the same hardware you have, but isn't experiencing any of the slowdowns that you are. I guess he is lying right? Cuase it is obviously impossible for you to be wrong.

You say that the slo-mo in FEAR would cause mouse lag if it dropped your fps? I'm starting to think that you have never played FEAR. You mouse does lag when using slo mo. It does not lag substantial, but definitely by a little bit- it does lag.

I hope not to offend you, but I'm now convinced that you really don't know anything about computer gaming and the hardware for computer gaming.


they scale from a core 2 duo@3333 to a 3800. there is no cpu limitation at high res with aa/af in 95% of games.

yes todays games can bring an 8800 to its knees at high res with aa/af. crysis would crawl at those settings(how well do u expect crysis to run on an 8800 at 1920 x 1200 with 4x aa 16x af?), but it will surely run smooth at lower resolutions with some aa/af which is what ive always said.

fear issues could be a game or driver issue, but u cant claim every single game on the market that brings an 8800 to its knees is a driver or game issue. what about oblivion? what about trackmania? what about dark messiah?

btw im not experiencing the same fear issue as you, i never cant move fowards, for me its just the fps tanking. and the mouse lag isnt normal as if i activate slowmo in an empty room where i get high fps my mouse feels great, its only when the framerate tanks that mouse lag becomes an issue. that goes for every game btw.

no i want th e8800s to perform as good as possible, if i could magically snap my fingers and have them double in speed i would, but overclocking my cpu wont help me in any games except supcom.

i havent played any of the bfme games but im aware 8800 has many sli issues atm.

those 2 posters opinions dont prove anything as u have no idea what resolutions or settings they are playing at and what they define as 'great', and the review sites benches actually back eveyrthing im saying. ive already proven with math that cod 2 drops to around 30 with 16x aa 16x af at 1920 x 1200, we know fear bombs, we know trackmania drops to below 30 if u play online, oblivion drops to the teens even without any visual mods, dakr messiah drops to the 20s. this is all fact. my system is fine, i know how to maintain it as i can run any game bench and its never lower than the reviews u find, unfortunately the actual game is usually slower, and therefor matters a lot more than a bench.
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Old 01-16-07, 08:18 PM   #99
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Default Re: Wonder how well you PC will run Crysis

just another graph of another title showing cpu scaling



again almost no difference from a 3800 all the way up to a core 2 duo at 3333, and this isnt even at 1920 x 1200 where i play, so i have even less of a cpu limitation
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Old 01-16-07, 08:22 PM   #100
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Default Re: Wonder how well you PC will run Crysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by icecold1983


they scale from a core 2 duo@3333 to a 3800. there is no cpu limitation at high res with aa/af in 95% of games.

yes todays games can bring an 8800 to its knees at high res with aa/af. crysis would crawl at those settings(how well do u expect crysis to run on an 8800 at 1920 x 1200 with 4x aa 16x af?), but it will surely run smooth at lower resolutions with some aa/af which is what ive always said.

fear issues could be a game or driver issue, but u cant claim every single game on the market that brings an 8800 to its knees is a driver or game issue. what about oblivion? what about trackmania? what about dark messiah?

btw im not experiencing the same fear issue as you, i never cant move fowards, for me its just the fps tanking. and the mouse lag isnt normal as if i activate slowmo in an empty room where i get high fps my mouse feels great, its only when the framerate tanks that mouse lag becomes an issue. that goes for every game btw.

no i want th e8800s to perform as good as possible, if i could magically snap my fingers and have them double in speed i would, but overclocking my cpu wont help me in any games except supcom.

i havent played any of the bfme games but im aware 8800 has many sli issues atm.

those 2 posters opinions dont prove anything as u have no idea what resolutions or settings they are playing at and what they define as 'great', and the review sites benches actually back eveyrthing im saying. ive already proven with math that cod 2 drops to around 30 with 16x aa 16x af at 1920 x 1200, we know fear bombs, we know trackmania drops to below 30 if u play online, oblivion drops to the teens even without any visual mods, dakr messiah drops to the 20s. this is all fact. my system is fine, i know how to maintain it as i can run any game bench and its never lower than the reviews u find, unfortunately the actual game is usually slower, and therefor matters a lot more than a bench.
Icecold, for everygame where the fps tanks for you- other members here owning a setup equivalent to yours says the opposite (multiple members). And the reviews do not back up what you claim. I posted a review where they tested the CPU scaling of the 8800's, and the results were very differet than what you have just posted- have a link to your source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptNKILL
Actually this just seems like the same flame war thats been going on for a couple weeks now in various other threads.

Why are people still trying to convince icecold of anything related to PC performance and graphics? If he hasn't agreed in the 5 other threads where the same screenshots were posted, he isn't going to agree this time.

I'm not trying to play forum police, but come on guys... it seems like every interesting thread in this section ends up getting dragged into this ongoing crap.
You are correct CaptNKILL. This is much like beating a dead horse. It would be wise of me to discontinue this debate. This will make the third time where I've said I would step out of this debate- let's see if I can actually do it this time.
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Old 01-16-07, 08:34 PM   #101
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Default Re: Wonder how well you PC will run Crysis

This game was the deciding factor in me getting a new system with a quad core CPU and SLI video cards. While I wait for it to be released I will replay Oblivion with mods this time (beat it on the 360), Dark Messiah, Gothic 3, and FEAR:EP.
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Old 01-16-07, 08:35 PM   #102
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Default Re: Wonder how well you PC will run Crysis

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=603

was the site with those graphs

the review su linked to were the following

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/415/3/
http://www.overclockers.com/articles1390/
http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/articl...4&pagenumber=5
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2870&p=22

one of the links u gave doesnt work

the first link isnt rly useful as it doesnt show anything in regards to cpu scaling on a single card.

the 2nd link u showed benches at 1024 x 768 which is absolutely pointless, at the end of the article how ever they say what ive been saying

"When high res gaming, it is quite obvious here that the GPU's performance does not scale AT ALL at any CPU clockspeed"

3rd link is just a regular review, no info in regards to cpu scaling, but it shows somewhat higher cod 2 numbers, could be a less strenuous benchmark than other sites run, as its unlikely that they are just better at setting up a system than all the other review sites.

4th link is pretty irrelevant to this discussion, but with an avg fps of 32 u can bet the minimum fps is extremely low, were talking single digit lows.

again anyone who owns tm united and an 8800, simply max out the graphics, set ur res to 1920 x 1200 and go play some stadium online. i suggest u turn motion blur off tho or else it wont even be playable.

ill go take some screens and post them

btw captnkill im being perfectly mature, im not flaming or insulting anyone.
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Old 01-16-07, 10:19 PM   #103
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Default Re: Wonder how well you PC will run Crysis

alo another game that brings an 8800 to its knees, r6 vegas. call of juarez too.
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Old 01-16-07, 10:21 PM   #104
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Default Re: Wonder how well you PC will run Crysis

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alo another game that brings an 8800 to its knees, r6 vegas. call of juarez too.
R6 Vegas brings it to its knees because the game is coded like ass... There is no reason why while im playing my framerates would be higher during high points of action then while walking down an empty hallway.
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Old 01-16-07, 10:21 PM   #105
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Default Re: Wonder how well you PC will run Crysis

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Originally Posted by icecold1983
[
fear issues could be a game or driver issue, but u cant claim every single game on the market that brings an 8800 to its knees is a driver or game issue. what about oblivion? what about trackmania? what about dark messiah?
Where does this idea of yours come from that a single graphics card should be able to run every title at 1920x1200 resolution at 40fps or more while 16xAA is activated?

Can you tell us, please? Because this has never, ever been the case as far as I can remember. If you're so pissed at the way that your setup is running, then there's an easy solution for it. Go SLI.

Quote:
no i want th e8800s to perform as good as possible, if i could magically snap my fingers and have them double in speed i would, but overclocking my cpu wont help me in any games except supcom.

i havent played any of the bfme games but im aware 8800 has many sli issues atm.
SLI works perfect on Oblivion, Dark Messiah, Call of Duty 2, Prey, and Tomb Raider Legend for me. The only title giving me trouble so far is Rainbow Six Vegas. So, again.. you exaggerate things.

What you should've done if you wanted better performance at higher resolutions is to go SLI. That is really the only thing that can handle 1920x1200/16xAA with really good framerates 100% of the time. All of those titles I listed above, including Dark Messiah--which you say brings the 8800GTX to its knees--run no less than 60fps on my system at any time.

So how about just quit bitching about this on every thread like you've been doing and either go buy a second card or wait for some drivers to come out that are more optimized.

It just seems absurd to me that you, one, expect a single card to play every game without slowing down at your crazy resolution that you're playing at, and two, that you expect a brand new architecture to have no problems balancing both DX9 and DX10 perfectly right off the bat. The drivers for this card are still early and Nvidia is having to program for two different operating systems--XP and Vista.
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Old 01-16-07, 11:35 PM   #106
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R6 Vegas brings it to its knees because the game is coded like ass... There is no reason why while im playing my framerates would be higher during high points of action then while walking down an empty hallway.
agreed, but it still brings the 8800 to its knees as an available and popular game
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Old 01-16-07, 11:39 PM   #107
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Default Re: Wonder how well you PC will run Crysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion X2
Where does this idea of yours come from that a single graphics card should be able to run every title at 1920x1200 resolution at 40fps or more while 16xAA is activated?

Can you tell us, please? Because this has never, ever been the case as far as I can remember. If you're so pissed at the way that your setup is running, then there's an easy solution for it. Go SLI.



SLI works perfect on Oblivion, Dark Messiah, Call of Duty 2, Prey, and Tomb Raider Legend for me. The only title giving me trouble so far is Rainbow Six Vegas. So, again.. you exaggerate things.

What you should've done if you wanted better performance at higher resolutions is to go SLI. That is really the only thing that can handle 1920x1200/16xAA with really good framerates 100% of the time. All of those titles I listed above, including Dark Messiah--which you say brings the 8800GTX to its knees--run no less than 60fps on my system at any time.

So how about just quit bitching about this on every thread like you've been doing and either go buy a second card or wait for some drivers to come out that are more optimized.

It just seems absurd to me that you, one, expect a single card to play every game without slowing down at your crazy resolution that you're playing at, and two, that you expect a brand new architecture to have no problems balancing both DX9 and DX10 perfectly right off the bat. The drivers for this card are still early and Nvidia is having to program for two different operating systems--XP and Vista.
i never said i expect the 8800 to play every game at 1920 x 1200 with 16x aa, that was you or someone else who said NO CURRENT GAME CAN TEST THE 8800. i simply argued that fact.

btw in the games i listed i use 4x aa and still hit performance walls. the only reason im hesitant to go sli is some games just dont see an increase, teackmania being one. i also want to see the r600 b4 i make the decision to go sli.

1920 x 1200 isnt a crazy res, even the ps3 supports it in some games, likely to be many games in the future, with no framerate problems.
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Old 01-16-07, 11:40 PM   #108
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agreed, but it still brings the 8800 to its knees as an available and popular game
If thats your logic, I can write a DOS game that can bring down a QuadCore to its knees... guess they suck as CPUs aswell...

God your more retarded then Nv40.
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