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Old 05-26-07, 08:52 AM   #349
terryxela
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Default Re: beryl black windows bug

I have a new card GTS 8800 320 mb. IF I do not do most of the changes that Jim pointed out I do get the black window. OTOH I believe most of you after boot up do not see the black windows, then you start to open application until finally you get it so, the conclusion is that under normal use IF you have some vram you should not see it. In my case the conditions are different. My computer is on all the time, when I am not there the screen saver with fancy graphics takes over. I do run program unattended like the fax program and also mythtv that may be recording some programs. About half of the time when I get back 10 hours later and I start to use it the black screen is there. So in my case I can get it under normal use. In occasions is more than the black screen but the system is frozen.Since I introduced Jim's changes I have not had any problems.
Again as I said in an earlier message some of the changes may not be necessary or even may decrease performance but some are key for beryl use under normal use.
Finally I do not see big changes (without any measurements) in performance between the system running with this changes or only using the nvidia setup. I started to look into the different changes and quantify performance. As I said before AIGLX (in my card!) does not make any difference it is true, false or not present at all so it is unnecessary.

This weekend I will evaluate some of the changes that Jupiter suggested also.

Have all of you a good weekend.

-=terry(Denver)=-
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Old 05-26-07, 05:45 PM   #350
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Default Re: beryl black windows bug

@devrandom:
Do NOT use BackingStore option and try again post #329!!
Maybe the 6 series cards have some kind of problem with BackingStore!!
All the problems about low performance with these settings are reported from 6 series cards and I think BackingStore is the cause!!
As for AIGLX I think I'm pretty clear in post #329, and open beryl-manager only as I said, not beryl!
If you don't use "force AIGLX" together with "Texture from Pixmap" and "XGL binding" you won't get good results!!

Jim
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Old 05-26-07, 06:00 PM   #351
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Default Re: beryl black windows bug

I edited post #329 again with the new stuff that comes from our discussion here...
Take a look...
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Old 05-26-07, 07:21 PM   #352
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Default Re: beryl black windows bug

Quote:
Originally Posted by djdoo
Hello Jarocooke welcome to our thread!!

The Bug is haunting this driver too!!
Not worth updating to it at all except if you have an 6 series card and face a bug in KDE with slow typing if fonts are antialiasigned!
I have also faced troubles with this driver, video freezes when trying to shutdown system and stops everything sometimes!!
If it continues I 'll downgrade to good old 9755 which has the same problems but it is more stable!!

Tell us what's your experience with post's #329 settings...
Hi djdoo,

I haven't tried your suggestions yet, mainly because I've tried most of them in the past and not got anywhere. Thank you for posting them anyway though, as they are useful for people that are having serious trouble and feel the need to try something.

I was (until a couple of weeks ago), using a Lenovo with a 1680x1050 display and only a 64mb Geforce 7300 Go. This was not a good combination and I got black windows immediately unless I changed Beryl rendering option to AIGLX. Even then it wasn't good at all. Now I have a new laptop with a 7300 Go 128mb graphics card and only a 1280x800 display. The problem was so much less pronounced, I thought it was gone at first. I was (and still am) using the Nvidia option with the Blur plugin and it was fine, though I had to dump the Blur plugin, because if I ran out of VRAM, which did happen occasionally, it would crash and freeze my whole computer (took me back to my WinXP days...enough reminiscing). I do like Blur, but it isn't really of use for anything, just looks nice, so I can live without it (unlike trying to live without the transparent cube which has totally removed the need for the workspace switcher, or the scale feature that I am now using almost exclusively for switching programs). In short I am happy with my current setup, though I still look forward to the full performance of my hardware being available.

One thing that does annoy me is the suggestion from Nvidia, that perhaps the best solution is just to not use Beryl!!!

Wow, how do I respond to that? Well, having used Beryl for about six months now, I (as mentioned earlier) use the transparent cube for visually checking what is on each workspace (whether I actually switch to that side or not) and I am so addicted to the scale feature that when using Win200 at work I routinely find myself jamming the mouse into the top-right corner of the screen to swap between applications and then wondering why nothing happens.

In short the way that I use my computer (at home at least) has fundamentally changed thanks to Beryl and I am unwilling to go back, anymore than a Windows users would want to go back to using Win3.1. What I would suggest to anyone that is looking to buy a new laptop is, either get a Nvidia card that has a sensible amount of VRAM and a resolution that doesn't go beyond 1280x800 or get a laptop with an Intel graphics chipset. The low VRAM Nvidia cards are virtually useless on a laptop with a 1680x1050 monitor.

One thing that I don't understand, is why I can now use the Nvidia rendering option, instead of the AIGLX option. However the performance gain that you get from that is immense and totally changed my feelings on this bug. At least now I am reasonably happy waiting until it is fixed (though I think sooner rather than later would be a good idea Nvidia).

As far as the driver version is concerned, the new laptop is still using the Nvidia drivers from the Ubuntu repos and so I can't be bothered to change to the Nvidia website ones (not that it is difficult), it just isn't worth it unless it fixes this bug once and for all. I would recommend that anyone using the Nvidia drivers uses that 9755 version though (called Nvidia-GLX-new or something, in the Ubuntu repos), as I have found that these drivers are quite noticeably faster than the 9631 drivers.

Anyway, until the next Nvidia driver release...
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Old 05-26-07, 07:32 PM   #353
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Default Re: beryl black windows bug

@ jarocooke:
Try the FULL setup not some of the settings!!
Some of the settings is not a solution!!!
Try full one and tell us your experience! Believe me beryl worths it...
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Old 05-26-07, 08:05 PM   #354
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@djdoo

I am using Beryl!!!

If I couldn't I would buy another computer that could run it! Ops, that's exactly what I did!

The reason that I am not trying any settings, is that under normal use, for me, I can use the Nvidia rendering option. In short this is substantially better performance than any settings combination that involves AIGLX, as far as I know. After all isn't that how the GPU is supposed to be used? In any event, it is as smooth and responsive as I would ever want, so I just have to not open loads of windows, which I am happy to do. Luckily if I do get a black window the system will "give back" the memory if I close something (or minimize it), so I just have to get rid of what ever I haven't got round to closing yet.

My wife has "inherited" the Lenovo from me and she isn't really all that bothered about Beryl, she just wants it to be stable. So she is just using metacity on that machine, which is fine for her (though not me).

To be honest I don't think that I will be bothered with trying any other settings, I will just wait for the drivers that fix this problem.

I can't help but wonder though, whether there is some change to the kernel module that Ubuntu "bake in" to their repository drivers, because the Nvidia rendering option didn't seem to work properly on the Lenovo at all, it rendered everything smoothly, but at half speed or something. Maybe I'm just not remembering correctly, or perhaps the screen resolution meant that I ran out of VRAM pretty much as soon as Gnome started. I may do some tests of my wife's computer using Nvidia rendering now, as I have done a clean install and she is using the Ubuntu 9755 driver as well now (instead of the one from Nvidia's webpage, which I had installed myself before).

If it does seem to work better I will report back, though when I will get round to it, I don't know.

If the Ubuntu repository driver make no difference (and it probably won't), then I will give your suggestions a try (all of them). On my machine though, as far as I am concerned, if it ain't broken (with a reasonable number of windows open), then don't fix it.
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Old 05-26-07, 08:24 PM   #355
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Default Re: beryl black windows bug

@jarocooke:
Even if you are happy with buggy Nvidia mode please test the post's #329 settings just to give us some feedback not permanent use of them!
We need as much feedback as we can get!!

It would be very kind of you if you give them a try!!

PS: Sorry if being tiring... it's very important!
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Old 05-26-07, 08:52 PM   #356
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Default Re: beryl black windows bug

As I said, I will give it a try on the Lenovo, when I get the time.

That's the machine that I have played with the settings on in the past, so I should at least be able to make a comparison to other "solutions" that I've tried.

Don't worry about being tiring, this bug is a right pain in the ass if you don't have graphics card with lots of VRAM (or if you routinely end up with loads of windows open). I totally understand how much people want to find a work around. In the past though I have found the simpler options tend to do the job best (just using AIGLX under rending options in Beryl manager).

I do wonder how much people just want different options to improve the situation so badly, that they convince themselves though. I'm not suggesting that is the case with your suggestion, just that it has been my experience in the past.

One thing is for sure, I am very tired of this bug!!!
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Old 05-27-07, 03:51 AM   #357
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Red face Re: beryl black windows bug

Hi, I registered to post my feedback

The tip #329 does help on my machine with both 9755 nvidia driver.
(kernel 2.6.21, 5700LE agp 8x with 64MB video ram. )
It solve the black window problem for me. The performance cutdown is almost not sensible for me. This tip is really a great help. Although after playing some video clip, the performance began to decrease as usual.

I wish you guys at NVidia have great progress on fixing bugs. You're the last hope in video chip maker in market for open source user. With NVidia's chip, I can play many good games on Linux, even windows game through wine. I would like to say thx to you all.

I wouldn't complain anything more for there is already too much. Good luck.
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Old 05-27-07, 04:42 PM   #358
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Smile Re: beryl black windows bug

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbg
Hi, I registered to post my feedback

The tip #329 does help on my machine with both 9755 nvidia driver.
(kernel 2.6.21, 5700LE agp 8x with 64MB video ram. )
It solve the black window problem for me. The performance cutdown is almost not sensible for me. This tip is really a great help. Although after playing some video clip, the performance began to decrease as usual.

I wish you guys at NVidia have great progress on fixing bugs. You're the last hope in video chip maker in market for open source user. With NVidia's chip, I can play many good games on Linux, even windows game through wine. I would like to say thx to you all.

I wouldn't complain anything more for there is already too much. Good luck.
Sbbg Welcome to our thread!!
I'm Really happy to know that our work gave good results to you too!!

Also I 'd like to ask you something more...
I' m a bit comfused with your second paragraph!... These lines go straight to nVidia's devs or to us here??
Cause we don't have any other relasionship with the company except for being its costumers!!
And also give me your impression about post#329, any suggestions??

Jim
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Old 05-27-07, 08:21 PM   #359
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Default Re: beryl black windows bug

Hi djdoo,

I tried your suggestion, but as before, beryl runs with some sacrifice of speed. On my notebook, to get rid of the black windows bug and still have some reasonable responsiveness, I've found that it's best not to use any of those extra options in xorg.conf and modprobe.conf, but simply set the rendering path to 'copy' and the rendering platform to 'force nvidia' in Advanced Beryl Options.

As we talked before, the length of this news thread, the number of reads, and the variety of solutions to this problem which have been proposed by countless users are a testimony that open sourcing the nVidia graphics drivers (just like Intel did (see this) and, as it seems, ATI/AMD (see this or this) is committed to do) would probably have been the best solution for us all.

Fortunately there is some hope: check out Nouveau. Although they are still at a very early stage, perhaps if more developers and testers join the team, they will bring us some really good news.

Now let me get this straight: I have nothing against these dedicated people at nVidia. It is just that building a video graphics driver is a "very complex task", and it should be left to "highly skilled programmers". There is plenty of them around the globe. Well, at least we could say there's more of them outside nVidia for sure.

Waldeck

PS: Now I hope nVidia will not shut down this thread the same way they did with mine. Sic!
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Old 05-28-07, 05:14 PM   #360
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Default Re: beryl black windows bug

@Waldeck:
Thanks for writing here your experience man!!
We are testing and testing opinions and setups here, cause nVidia does not give us the opportunity to solve the problem with our skills and have the responsibility of solving the bugs ourselves!!

Also your post was very important cause you gave us very inportant info which I didn't know at all!!!
AMD will give open drivers!!!! And that's an official statement!!!
If this happen ATI will crash nVidia in Linux community cause ATI cards had been always more affordable and with open drivers nVidia stands no chance at all!!!
Cause intel move is not affecting the big masses of PC Linux users but ATI's open drivers will!!!!

NVIDIA WAKE UP!!! YOU WILL LOSE THE GAME COMPLETELY!! AMD IS COMING...
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