Go Back   nV News Forums > Hardware Forums > Benchmarking And Overclocking

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-24-07, 09:28 PM   #73
schuey74
GTX 280 (675/1458/2500)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 819
Default Re: Kentsfield/Quad-Core Overclocking Thread

And an fyi, if your watercooling temps are hitting 60C or above then you're probably endangering your pump. Remember that that same water has to cool the pump and most don't like temps above 55c/60c.
schuey74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-07, 09:33 PM   #74
mhw100
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 12
Default Re: Kentsfield/Quad-Core Overclocking Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by schuey74
An overclocked quad core and a GTX in the same loop is going to stress most watercooling setups, especially when you start bumping up the volts. If his GTX was off the loop his load temps would drop around five to seven degrees(c).
Thank you and good to know. I intend on only water cooling the CPU. I'm not stressing the 3 vcards and this 680i doesn't appear to need a ton of volts to keep things stable...at least as far as I've seen up to ~3.66Ghz. I would like to keep it running 24/7 at about 3.7-3.8Ghz.

Could you offer a guess at how much of a heat drop difference would arise between a 3-fan versus 2-fan rad setup would drop the temps? Would there be much of difference between say a Swiftech GT versus the GTX water block?
__________________
QX6700, Asus P5N32-E, Corsair 8500C5D x 4,Zalman 9700, eVGA 7900 GS K0 x 3, Thermaltake 850w, WD 150g Raptors x 2, Seagate 250G, CoolerMaster 830 Evo w/8 12cm fans, Dell 1907FP 19" x 6.
mhw100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 09:04 AM   #75
schuey74
GTX 280 (675/1458/2500)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 819
Default Re: Kentsfield/Quad-Core Overclocking Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhw100
Thank you and good to know. I intend on only water cooling the CPU. I'm not stressing the 3 vcards and this 680i doesn't appear to need a ton of volts to keep things stable...at least as far as I've seen up to ~3.66Ghz. I would like to keep it running 24/7 at about 3.7-3.8Ghz.

Could you offer a guess at how much of a heat drop difference would arise between a 3-fan versus 2-fan rad setup would drop the temps? Would there be much of difference between say a Swiftech GT versus the GTX water block?
IMO, if you only intend on watercooling the CPU, you'd probably be fine with a 2x120 rad. Now, that doesn't mean you won't get better temps with a 3x120, it just may not be worth the trouble since it's a bit of a headache to get that big of a rad mounted on most cases.

The triple rad would probably knock your temps down two to four degrees and the GTX waterblock would get you another two or three on a quad core. These differences probably won't make much of an impact on your OC, but it could.

If I were you I'd see what the CPU can do on air and stock (or close to) volts and then decide how much cooling you need. If your chips clocks well without much voltage then a dual rad setup would be fine, but if it needs a lot of voltage then a triple rad would help. Either way I'd go with the GTX waterblock unless you already own the GT. I wouldn't change blocks for two degrees.
schuey74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 10:51 AM   #76
mhw100
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 12
Default Re: Kentsfield/Quad-Core Overclocking Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by schuey74
IMO, if you only intend on watercooling the CPU, you'd probably be fine with a 2x120 rad. Now, that doesn't mean you won't get better temps with a 3x120, it just may not be worth the trouble since it's a bit of a headache to get that big of a rad mounted on most cases.

The triple rad would probably knock your temps down two to four degrees and the GTX waterblock would get you another two or three on a quad core. These differences probably won't make much of an impact on your OC, but it could.

If I were you I'd see what the CPU can do on air and stock (or close to) volts and then decide how much cooling you need. If your chips clocks well without much voltage then a dual rad setup would be fine, but if it needs a lot of voltage then a triple rad would help. Either way I'd go with the GTX waterblock unless you already own the GT. I wouldn't change blocks for two degrees.
Many thanks for taking the time in composing your well thought out response.

I haven't ordered any water parts yet so for the little extra money I might as well go for the better parts. My shopping list for the CPU is all of the higher end Swiftech products as you fleshed out above e.g. MCR320 radiator (triple model), GTX water block, an MCP655 pump. Is there any known better equipment?

Also, is there any general rule of thumb as to how much this type of system is going to drop quad temps with a relatively modest OC in comparison to a high end air system such as a Thermalright Ultra Extreme? I look around on some of the OC water forums and I see water setups that aren't getting much better results than mine which are relatively poor in comparison to what the Extreme can do. I'm beginning to wonder if the air technology has caught up to water and now the only real benefit that can be achieved is through phase.

Thank you.
__________________
QX6700, Asus P5N32-E, Corsair 8500C5D x 4,Zalman 9700, eVGA 7900 GS K0 x 3, Thermaltake 850w, WD 150g Raptors x 2, Seagate 250G, CoolerMaster 830 Evo w/8 12cm fans, Dell 1907FP 19" x 6.
mhw100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 11:28 AM   #77
schuey74
GTX 280 (675/1458/2500)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 819
Default Re: Kentsfield/Quad-Core Overclocking Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhw100
I haven't ordered any water parts yet so for the little extra money I might as well go for the better parts. My shopping list for the CPU is all of the higher end Swiftech products as you fleshed out above e.g. MCR320 radiator (triple model), GTX water block, an MCP655 pump. Is there any known better equipment?
Thermochill rads are the best.
http://jab-tech.com/Thermochill-c-260.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhw100
Also, is there any general rule of thumb as to how much this type of system is going to drop quad temps with a relatively modest OC in comparison to a high end air system such as a Thermalright Ultra Extreme?
Voltage will affect your temps much more than clockspeed so it's impossible to generalize it, but I'll give you an example so you understand where I'm coming from.

Example: You have a quad that does 3.2 at or near stock voltage, but requires ~1.5v to do 3.6. If you're happy @ 3.2 and don't want to risk pumping up the volts on your CPU, then stick with the Thermalright. There shouldn't be a big difference in temps (a few degrees at most) between it and water at those clockspeeds and voltage. But if you do want to run that particular CPU @ the higher speed and voltage, water would give you a significant temperature drop.....a drop which could be the difference between your CPU being stable @ 3.6 or not.

So like I mentioned in a previous post, the best thing to do is try the CPU on the stock cooling first so you have a good idea about what you're dealing with and then make your long term cooling decision. IMO, you should do that and post your results here so the kind folk at nvnews can guide you in the right direction once we know exactly what your CPU can do at stock volts. Plus, your situation would be a big help for many people on the fringe on whether or not to go to watercooling.

Good luck on getting a good overclocker!
schuey74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 12:18 PM   #78
mhw100
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 12
Default Re: Kentsfield/Quad-Core Overclocking Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by schuey74
Thermochill rads are the best.
http://jab-tech.com/Thermochill-c-260.html


Voltage will affect your temps much more than clockspeed so it's impossible to generalize it, but I'll give you an example so you understand where I'm coming from.

Example: You have a quad that does 3.2 at or near stock voltage, but requires ~1.5v to do 3.6. If you're happy @ 3.2 and don't want to risk pumping up the volts on your CPU, then stick with the Thermalright. There shouldn't be a big difference in temps (a few degrees at most) between it and water at those clockspeeds and voltage. But if you do want to run that particular CPU @ the higher speed and voltage, water would give you a significant temperature drop.....a drop which could be the difference between your CPU being stable @ 3.6 or not.

So like I mentioned in a previous post, the best thing to do is try the CPU on the stock cooling first so you have a good idea about what you're dealing with and then make your long term cooling decision. IMO, you should do that and post your results here so the kind folk at nvnews can guide you in the right direction once we know exactly what your CPU can do at stock volts. Plus, your situation would be a big help for many people on the fringe on whether or not to go to watercooling.

Good luck on getting a good overclocker!
schuey74 - indeed thank you again for your time.

My cooling performance is pretty much as I laid out in post #97 above with the Zalman 9700 LED. Temps are in Everest. The 680i (at least the Striker and P5N32-E) seems to like lower volts as opposed to higher volts so to run stable at ~3.4Ghz vcore=1.41, sb=1.52, nb=1.33, fsb vtt=1.36.

It will run Windows, but not orthos, stable at 3.6+Ghz with very little extra voltage beyond these numbers.

The 680i seems to like to eat ram so I keep it down to 876mhz, 2.06v, 4-4-4-8 1T.

The other problem with the Asus 680i boards running quads is that the fsb won't exceed ~340mhz regardless of the multiplier or cooling so I'm running it at 1252mhz (313 x 11) but I doubt this has any relevancy to heat.

Is there anything else I should advise you of?
__________________
QX6700, Asus P5N32-E, Corsair 8500C5D x 4,Zalman 9700, eVGA 7900 GS K0 x 3, Thermaltake 850w, WD 150g Raptors x 2, Seagate 250G, CoolerMaster 830 Evo w/8 12cm fans, Dell 1907FP 19" x 6.
mhw100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 01:34 PM   #79
Xion X2
Registered User
 
Xion X2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: U.S.
Posts: 6,701
Default Re: Kentsfield/Quad-Core Overclocking Thread

Nice posts, Schuey. You should come around more often and help me with some of these watercooling questions. I've been taking 3-4 PM's a day at times trying to keep up with some of it.

Not that I mind that, because I enjoy helping others out. But you seem to know your stuff pretty well.

Do you still have your 1900XT, or did you swap it for the GTS?
__________________

i7-2700k @ 5.0 GHz
Nvidia GeForce 570 2.5GB Tri-SLI
Asus P67 WS Revolution (Tri-SLI)
OCZ Vertex SSD x 4 (Raid 5)
G.Skill 8GB DDR3 @ 1600MHz
PC Power & Cooling 950W PSU
Xion X2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 02:00 PM   #80
schuey74
GTX 280 (675/1458/2500)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 819
Default Re: Kentsfield/Quad-Core Overclocking Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhw100
schuey74 - indeed thank you again for your time.

My cooling performance is pretty much as I laid out in post #97 above with the Zalman 9700 LED. Temps are in Everest. The 680i (at least the Striker and P5N32-E) seems to like lower volts as opposed to higher volts so to run stable at ~3.4Ghz vcore=1.41, sb=1.52, nb=1.33, fsb vtt=1.36.

It will run Windows, but not orthos, stable at 3.6+Ghz with very little extra voltage beyond these numbers.

The 680i seems to like to eat ram so I keep it down to 876mhz, 2.06v, 4-4-4-8 1T.

The other problem with the Asus 680i boards running quads is that the fsb won't exceed ~340mhz regardless of the multiplier or cooling so I'm running it at 1252mhz (313 x 11) but I doubt this has any relevancy to heat.

Is there anything else I should advise you of?
No problem man, I've got the time right now.

Sorry I missed a couple of earlier post where you specified some stuff.

If I were in your position I would see exactly how much voltage it takes for your CPU to be Orthos stable. You don't need to leave it running for hours, just run it for 20 - 30 minutes and if it clears that your good. That doesn't mean you 100% stable at that speed, but it does mean 100% stable results are almost assured with slightly more voltage or better cooling. The point of this is not to find your ultimate overclock, but to find out the following: can I run the chip @ 3.6 fully loaded for at least a little while without it heating up to insane temps.

If you find that you can run it @ 3.6 100% stable, then you'll likely want watercooling to get you much more comfortable temps. If you can't get 3.6 stable than just keep your current cooling because the difference in temps just isn't worth it and it's unlikely the lower temps will buy you that stability. This all, of course, is very dependent on how much voltage is necessary for said stability - anything over 1.55v and you're going to need good watercooling to keep those orthos temps in the 50s(c). You made it clear (and it makes sense) that you don't want/need to wc your video cards so I would not suggest investing in watercooling unless you have that 3.6 stability.
schuey74 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-07, 02:15 PM   #81
schuey74
GTX 280 (675/1458/2500)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 819
Default Re: Kentsfield/Quad-Core Overclocking Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion X2
Nice posts, Schuey. You should come around more often and help me with some of these watercooling questions. I've been taking 3-4 PM's a day at times trying to keep up with some of it.
Thanks, I come around when I can, but it's all work dependent. Sometimes I have loads of free time for weeks or even months at a time and other times I'm swamped for similar periods of time. I closed my office for all but phone calls today and I'm getting ready for a nice long weekend of PC Gaming, F1, and playoff b-ball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion X2
Not that I mind that, because I enjoy helping others out. But you seem to know your stuff pretty well.

Do you still have your 1900XT, or did you swap it for the GTS?
Sold the X1900XT in Nov. to buy an 8800. I got into Gears on my 360 and that combined with work gave me nearly zero time for PC gaming until Feb. I didn't see the point in paying a high price for a card I wasn't going to use much so I waited and ended up saving a lot of money when buying my GTS. I actually bought a Foxconn GTX a couple of weeks ago, but it died and Newegg didn't have any more stock so I just took the credit and went back to the GTS. I just built a PC for an uncle and he was getting a GTS so I took the opportunity to upgrade to a GTX and leave him with my GTS - oh well, it didn't work out so I just got him a 320 meg GTS for $265.

BTW, congrats on you 2900XT. I'll be looking forward to seeing your results with it on water. I actually bought almost the same PS as you because I've seen all your posts and research on them (I got the 1000w). I bought it in anticipation of actually going crossfire. It looks like I'll probably wait for the next gen of cards, but if your results on water are exceptional I might give it a shot.
schuey74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 02:35 PM   #82
mhw100
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 12
Default Re: Kentsfield/Quad-Core Overclocking Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by schuey74
No problem man, I've got the time right now.

Sorry I missed a couple of earlier post where you specified some stuff.

If I were in your position I would see exactly how much voltage it takes for your CPU to be Orthos stable. You don't need to leave it running for hours, just run it for 20 - 30 minutes and if it clears that your good. That doesn't mean you 100% stable at that speed, but it does mean 100% stable results are almost assured with slightly more voltage or better cooling. The point of this is not to find your ultimate overclock, but to find out the following: can I run the chip @ 3.6 fully loaded for at least a little while without it heating up to insane temps.

If you find that you can run it @ 3.6 100% stable, then you'll likely want watercooling to get you much more comfortable temps. If you can't get 3.6 stable than just keep your current cooling because the difference in temps just isn't worth it and it's unlikely the lower temps will buy you that stability. This all, of course, is very dependent on how much voltage is necessary for said stability - anything over 1.55v and you're going to need good watercooling to keep those orthos temps in the 50s(c). You made it clear (and it makes sense) that you don't want/need to wc your video cards so I would not suggest investing in watercooling unless you have that 3.6 stability.
That sounds like very sage and cogent counsel.

The fact is that at 3.6Ghz the heat goes through the roof under pressure from orthos and quits after a couple of minutes. It isn't undervolting it that kills it; it is the temperature of the quad. Volts don't seem to really matter and I can keep them at the low-ish levels outlined above so subject to your opinion, I would say the volts aren't part of the equation relative to heat or stability at least at the 3.6 level. So following your reasoning, it would not be worth watercooling.

However, considering the following, would you change your mind?

It runs all day long at 3.6ghz in Windows with reasonable temps e.g. (idle ~34stressed by my apps ~52) with all the trading and business apps that I put on it. I'm not a gamer so it will never be pushed to orthos levels anyways.

With that preamble, forgetting about any cost/benefit analysis, and considering I would like it to clock at around 3.6-3.7 with something more comfortable than 52C under MY (not orthos) load, do you think water will bring the temps down to something more manageable?

As an aside I see the new Dell H2C 720 is running at 3.7+ under quasi water...and that's a Dell for gosh sakes...running essentially the system I've built. Gotta be able to beat a Dell.
__________________
QX6700, Asus P5N32-E, Corsair 8500C5D x 4,Zalman 9700, eVGA 7900 GS K0 x 3, Thermaltake 850w, WD 150g Raptors x 2, Seagate 250G, CoolerMaster 830 Evo w/8 12cm fans, Dell 1907FP 19" x 6.
mhw100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 03:15 PM   #83
schuey74
GTX 280 (675/1458/2500)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 819
Default Re: Kentsfield/Quad-Core Overclocking Thread

I've always believed that stability is relative to the user. If a system is 100% stable for what you do on it then nothing else matters. Just don't go bragging online about your stability when you know the standard for stability is running programs like orthos for long periods of time. There are a lot C2D systems out there that are 100% stable for gaming and not Orthos or TAT stable. The reason being obvious, most games are only single threaded and even those that are multithreaded hardly use the second core at all (I know there are a couple exceptions like SC & FSX SP1). The CPU is no where near the same level of stress or heat and consequently you can run it faster and be 100% stable while gaming. My old prescott 3.0 @ 3.7 crashed prime immediately, but the CPU dual-folded and gamed nonstop with never a crash so that's how I ran it at.

The above is the long version of yes, watercool it. Based on the rough numbers you laid out I'd say you could get low to mid 50s(c) orthos load w/ a 2x120 thermochill rad and the GTX wb @ 3.6. I would expect your general windows and business apps use temps to be in the low 40s or even better. Whether or not this will be orthos stable remains to be seen.....
schuey74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 03:18 PM   #84
schuey74
GTX 280 (675/1458/2500)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 819
Default Re: Kentsfield/Quad-Core Overclocking Thread

Dell gets to cherry pick the CPUs that go in their extreme rigs. You have to depend on blind luck to deliver you a chip that overclocks well. Not exactly an even playing field.
schuey74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are you OverClocking The Core or Boost Clock john19055 NVIDIA GeForce 600 Series 2 09-25-12 09:16 PM
i3 one core runs hotter than the other muelo1000 CPUs, Motherboards And Memory 3 05-29-12 01:00 PM
Overclocking Core i7-3770K: Learning To Live With Compromise News Archived News Items 0 05-24-12 03:50 AM
Intel's Ivy Bridge Core i7 3770K Overheating Issue Detailed News Archived News Items 0 05-16-12 11:40 AM
CPUMark99 - how do you compare fuelrod Benchmarking And Overclocking 66 07-19-11 09:32 AM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2014, nV News.