Go Back   nV News Forums > Software Forums > Gaming Central > Console World

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-26-07, 08:24 AM   #1
Bad_Boy
god of war.
 
Bad_Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: greensboro, nc.
Posts: 2,911
Send a message via AIM to Bad_Boy
Default Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

"Ripping off the veil: The mysterious PS3 hardware scaler exposed"
http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/ps3scaler/

Quote:
The key words in that last paragraph would be “until now,” because with the latest PlayStation 3 software development kit (SDK) update, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) has finally exposed part of the built-in hardware scaler to developers.
Its a good read if you're into the technical stuff. Basically saying there IS infact a ps3 scaler (hardware; that is supposedly "hibernating") so that 480p/1080i tv's should be fine for future games. It doesnt exactly work like you would expect (game specific code must be written to enable), and it's pretty odd why it's just coming into play recently for the PS3 SDK. They basically had what might actually be a very expensive chip going idle (there's speculation the chip is Toshiba's Super Companion AV Chip for Cell, or a version of it).

So, bottom line future games should be fine. From my understanding this fix is not 'retrocompatible' so I'm wondering how they will "patch" the already released games. I don't think it can be just a simple firmware update but maybe a patch through the PS Store for those titles. Late Feb and March+ titles shouldnt be affected as they have not gone gold already, I'd take a guess and say Virtua Fighter 5 and beyond should be fine. Scaling all games up to 1080p should be no problem from now on, which is the benefit for me since 480i/1080i scaling wasnt an issue to me personally.

It took a long ass time for them to fix the problems (no clue why), but I'm happy that they fixed them. (The two biggest problems people seem to have (PS2 BC IQ issues and scaling issue) have recently been fixed.)

I guess it's wishful thinking to have a troll free ps3 thread but whatever.

Heres a link to the B3D thread about it:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38027
__________________
[PS ID: Bad_Boy]
Bad_Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-07, 08:39 AM   #2
thor1182
Spelling Expert?!?
 
thor1182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indy, IN
Posts: 812
Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

I am very very confused why they didn't try and put this out sooner. It just makes the PS3 scream to me as an unfinished product in some key areas upon release. Good for them for having something on board that can do it, and getting it working... just still seems a bit odd that it took this long, and even what they have seems half baked.
__________________
-"Aqua 2": Water Cooled Intel i7 960, 12 GB DDR3 PC 12800, 3x Intel X-25-M 80 GB SSD RAID 0, SATA 1.5TB WD, EVGA GeForce GTX 470 Supper Clocked Water Cooled, ASUS P6X58D, Corsair 800D w/ Koolance cooling
thor1182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-07, 08:47 AM   #3
Bad_Boy
god of war.
 
Bad_Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: greensboro, nc.
Posts: 2,911
Send a message via AIM to Bad_Boy
Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Yeah it's pretty odd why it took this long. Possibly it could of been because of this new chip they are using. It really seems to me like Europe IS the real PS3 launch, all of the big issues (besides price of course) have been fixed before then and there are rumors of more updates to fix the other issues before launch. Not to mention software seems more ready during the europe launch. But it's glad to know theres an actual fix for this issue so many people have been complaining about.

I'm talking to the writer of the article about how long it would take to implement this for games and its pretty simple enough. Changing the framebuffer rendering size is all. I think every game released from VF5 (a 1080p game) and beyond should be fine if they havent gone gold yet.
__________________
[PS ID: Bad_Boy]
Bad_Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-07, 08:49 AM   #4
Namrok
Level 42 Conquerer
 
Namrok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Herndon, VA
Posts: 1,433
Send a message via ICQ to Namrok Send a message via AIM to Namrok
Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Game specific code for scaling? Ewwwwy. I'll take MS's solution over that any day. Still, good to hear they are hammering out the kinks. It's slowly becoming more appealing to me, just needs games now.
__________________
Xbox360 GamerTag : Horkthane
PSN: Horkthane
SteamID: Namrok
Namrok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-07, 08:53 AM   #5
thor1182
Spelling Expert?!?
 
thor1182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indy, IN
Posts: 812
Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

from all what I can tell from that article, and what I have read about the 360 scaler, I like the approach that MS used over what it seems like Sony is doing.

To me a free and down scale operation is much better than one that takes memory and extra processing time on the image, but it is still unknown that the PS3 chip can and cannot do.

I scanned that thread and it seems like a dumb dumb move on Sony's part to be purposely holding the PS3 back in terms of abilities and turn them up later in life. I would think they would be wanting to pull out all the stops and make it worth its cost, instead of something that is a work in progress.
__________________
-"Aqua 2": Water Cooled Intel i7 960, 12 GB DDR3 PC 12800, 3x Intel X-25-M 80 GB SSD RAID 0, SATA 1.5TB WD, EVGA GeForce GTX 470 Supper Clocked Water Cooled, ASUS P6X58D, Corsair 800D w/ Koolance cooling
thor1182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-07, 08:54 AM   #6
Bad_Boy
god of war.
 
Bad_Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: greensboro, nc.
Posts: 2,911
Send a message via AIM to Bad_Boy
Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namrok
Game specific code for scaling? Ewwwwy. I'll take MS's solution over that any day. Still, good to hear they are hammering out the kinks. It's slowly becoming more appealing to me, just needs games now.
Theres hardly a hit at all for devs to notice (if any at all), and it's still hardware based. Purely software based would most likely mean there would be a significant (enough to notice) hit in power By march, you probably wont be able to tell the difference between MS's solution and the PS3's way. From behind the scenes anyways, devs will obviously notice but it wont really affect development. This is really good news for 480i/1080i CRT owners. It doesnt quite affect me as much, but 1080p scaling is doesnt hurt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thor1182
I scanned that thread and it seems like a dumb dumb move on Sony's part to be purposely holding the PS3 back in terms of abilities and turn them up later in life. I would think they would be wanting to pull out all the stops and make it worth its cost, instead of something that is a work in progress.
I dont think they purposely held this back. Thats even worse than not being ready.
__________________
[PS ID: Bad_Boy]
Bad_Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-07, 08:57 AM   #7
thor1182
Spelling Expert?!?
 
thor1182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indy, IN
Posts: 812
Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

as of this moment we won't see much of a performance hit by the software method, but down the road we might as games keep pushing the limit of these systems.
__________________
-"Aqua 2": Water Cooled Intel i7 960, 12 GB DDR3 PC 12800, 3x Intel X-25-M 80 GB SSD RAID 0, SATA 1.5TB WD, EVGA GeForce GTX 470 Supper Clocked Water Cooled, ASUS P6X58D, Corsair 800D w/ Koolance cooling
thor1182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-07, 08:57 AM   #8
Namrok
Level 42 Conquerer
 
Namrok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Herndon, VA
Posts: 1,433
Send a message via ICQ to Namrok Send a message via AIM to Namrok
Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad_Boy
Theres hardly a hit at all for devs to notice (if any at all), and it's still hardware based. Purely software based would most likely mean there would be a significant (enough to notice) hit in power By march, you probably wont be able to tell the difference between MS's solution and the PS3's way. From behind the scenes anyways, devs will obviously notice but it wont really affect development. This is really good news for 480i/1080i CRT owners. It doesnt quite affect me as much, but 1080p scaling is doesnt hurt.
Except that you know...if they change the firmware for the scaler, games could stop working, where as MS can enhance theirs (1080p for example) and it will just work, totally transparent. I'm sorry but Sony's is just a crap engineering solution.

But you are right, to most people, it won't matter, unless Sony screws it up.
__________________
Xbox360 GamerTag : Horkthane
PSN: Horkthane
SteamID: Namrok
Namrok is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 01-26-07, 08:59 AM   #9
Bad_Boy
god of war.
 
Bad_Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: greensboro, nc.
Posts: 2,911
Send a message via AIM to Bad_Boy
Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namrok
Except that you know...if they change the firmware for the scaler, games could stop working, where as MS can enhance theirs (1080p for example) and it will just work, totally transparent. I'm sorry but Sony's is just a crap engineering solution.

But you are right, to most people, it won't matter, unless Sony screws it up.
They wont change the XMB firmware for the scaler. So games wont stop working. I dunno, maybe you should read the article again. *not trying to be rude*
__________________
[PS ID: Bad_Boy]
Bad_Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-07, 09:02 AM   #10
ENU291
Die spammer!! DIE!!!
 
ENU291's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,312
Send a message via AIM to ENU291 Send a message via Yahoo to ENU291
Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

I always said that the PS3 was just not ready for launch in November of 06. In their attempt to compete for the 06 Christmas season it seems that Sony let alot of small issues pass under the QA radar. It's good to see that they are finally getting everything sorted out now.
__________________
EVGA 8800GTX; Asus MSN-SLI Deluxe mobo; Athlon X2 5200+(225X13/2.93GHZ); Corsair XMS TWIN2X (1024X4); WD Raptor 150GB HD; MAXTOR 500GB HD; CL X-Fi XtremeGamer; Xbox360 HD-DVD; Plextor 18X DVD-RW/+RW; Dell 2707WFP

Registered Linux User # 444118 Xbox360 GamerTag: StryderXx PSN ID: StryderXx


Quote:
Originally Posted by nVJoe
Gamers are the most unhappy and miserable consumer group I know of. Just sit back, relax and have fun.
ENU291 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-07, 09:03 AM   #11
|MaguS|
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

I think its going to be more related to BC then PS3 games because if they can up the resolution of PS2 titles it would be awsome. I know as of right now they stated that they wouldn't but who knows in the future they might add the capabilities through a firmware patch.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-07, 09:03 AM   #12
ViN86
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 15,486
Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad_Boy
Yeah it's pretty odd why it took this long. Possibly it could of been because of this new chip they are using. It really seems to me like Europe IS the real PS3 launch, all of the big issues (besides price of course) have been fixed before then and there are rumors of more updates to fix the other issues before launch. Not to mention software seems more ready during the europe launch. But it's glad to know theres an actual fix for this issue so many people have been complaining about.

I'm talking to the writer of the article about how long it would take to implement this for games and its pretty simple enough. Changing the framebuffer rendering size is all. I think every game released from VF5 (a 1080p game) and beyond should be fine if they havent gone gold yet.
maybe they actually rushed it to production before all of the features were finely tuned. they probably did it to try and capitalize on the Christmas season. now that that whole debacle is over, we should see some features improved.

nice to see Sony making steps in the right direction and actually implementing their hardware instead of just hyping it.
ViN86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How do I play PS3 on my Sony Vaio while using HDMI cable? AbbieJohnson Archived News Items 0 06-18-12 05:04 AM
Rumor: Sony Cloud Deal Will Make PS3 Backwards Compatible, Stream PS2/PS1 games News Archived News Items 0 06-01-12 12:10 PM
The Inquirer Blasted druga runda Feedback Forum 49 09-14-02 05:17 AM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2014, nV News.