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Old 01-26-07, 10:05 AM   #13
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViN86
maybe they actually rushed it to production before all of the features were finely tuned. they probably did it to try and capitalize on the Christmas season. now that that whole debacle is over, we should see some features improved.

nice to see Sony making steps in the right direction and actually implementing their hardware instead of just hyping it.
Thats basically how I see it. As I said, Europe launch seems to be the real launch but theres no way they could of passed up 2006 holiday season and give 360 a two holiday season lead imo. It explains why everything seems to be 'at the ready' and fixed for europe launch.

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Originally Posted by |MaguS|
I think its going to be more related to BC then PS3 games because if they can up the resolution of PS2 titles it would be awsome. I know as of right now they stated that they wouldn't but who knows in the future they might add the capabilities through a firmware patch.
Talking to Vysez (writer of the article), he didnt really mention PS2 BC on the issue so for now it seems mainly for PS3 games and 480i/1080i CRT owners. It's in the PS3 SDK after all, which doesnt have much to do with PS2 BC.
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Old 01-26-07, 10:09 AM   #14
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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Thats basically how I see it. As I said, Europe launch seems to be the real launch but theres no way they could of passed up 2006 holiday season and give 360 a two holiday season lead imo. It explains why everything seems to be 'at the ready' and fixed for europe launch.


Talking to Vysez (writer of the article), he didnt really mention PS2 BC on the issue so for now it seems mainly for PS3 games and 480i/1080i CRT owners. It's in the PS3 SDK after all, which doesnt have much to do with PS2 BC.
Thats the thing, they only covered the SDK but who is to say that internally at Sony they aren't going to start using the scaler for BC. This article is written from the perspective of only outside developers, it doesn't cover what Sony might implement themselves in the future. Maybe they might upscale DVDs in the future aswell? Who knows, now atleast we know that the PS3 wouldn't need to do this through software scaling by using the CELL but rather has a dedicated chip.
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Old 01-26-07, 10:10 AM   #15
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Actually, after having actually read the article (I probably should have done that first) I just had a giant WTF moment.

The scaler only supports horizontal scaling. So to support 1080p/i if the game renders in 720p (due to resource constraints) they have to change the resolution from 720p to 960x1080, then stretch it to 1920x1080. There is either no vertical scaler, or Sony for some bizarre reason doesn't want people to use it yet, maybe they don't have firmware written for it. Now intermediate resolutions can be used instead of 960x1080, ones that are closer to 1920x1080 assuming you have power to spare for it. But I really have to wonder what stretching 960 pixels to double it's width would do to IQ. And the fact that you have to tweak and program for all this on a game by game basis is just sloppy, plain and simple. Scaling is something the OS should handle.

Ah well, as much as I think "worst engineering ever" when I read about that, it probably won't effect things too much. It's just retarded is all.
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Old 01-26-07, 10:12 AM   #16
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Good to see that there is one, I really had a hard time swallowing that one didn't exist in PS3.

Not to sure on the overall efficiency of this method. Basically Sony is trying to keep their promise of PS3 being "the" 1080p console. So with this method, virtually ALL games should be 1080p compatible.

Devs would keep the 1080 but change the 1920 to either 960, 1280, 1440....etc. Which ever one they can get the best preformance from. It's kind of a "shady" way of doing 1080p but it will work.

EDIT: Namrok pretty much said what I said. I agree with him as well this method is sloppy and allows a lot of room for error if the tools in the SDK aren't great.
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Old 01-26-07, 10:16 AM   #17
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by |MaguS|
Thats the thing, they only covered the SDK but who is to say that internally at Sony they aren't going to start using the scaler for BC. This article is written from the perspective of only outside developers, it doesn't cover what Sony might implement themselves in the future. Maybe they might upscale DVDs in the future aswell? Who knows, now atleast we know that the PS3 wouldn't need to do this through software scaling by using the CELL but rather has a dedicated chip.
Good points. It would be nice to have some more inside information. I'm happy the PS2 BC has been fixed so anything more than that would be alright with me. :P
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Old 01-26-07, 10:23 AM   #18
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namrok
Actually, after having actually read the article (I probably should have done that first) I just had a giant WTF moment.

The scaler only supports horizontal scaling. So to support 1080p/i if the game renders in 720p (due to resource constraints) they have to change the resolution from 720p to 960x1080, then stretch it to 1920x1080. There is either no vertical scaler, or Sony for some bizarre reason doesn't want people to use it yet, maybe they don't have firmware written for it. Now intermediate resolutions can be used instead of 960x1080, ones that are closer to 1920x1080 assuming you have power to spare for it. But I really have to wonder what stretching 960 pixels to double it's width would do to IQ. And the fact that you have to tweak and program for all this on a game by game basis is just sloppy, plain and simple. Scaling is something the OS should handle.

Ah well, as much as I think "worst engineering ever" when I read about that, it probably won't effect things too much. It's just retarded is all.
lol imo this sounds closer to the truth. making a scaler thats merely horizontal doesnt make much sense to me. but then again, im studying chemical engineering, not electrical

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Originally Posted by Bad_Boy
Good points. It would be nice to have some more inside information. I'm happy the PS2 BC has been fixed so anything more than that would be alright with me. :P
yes, the BC on the PS2 was amazing to me. i loved being able to play my PSX games on my PS2.
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Old 01-26-07, 10:27 AM   #19
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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Originally Posted by ViN86
lol imo this sounds closer to the truth. making a scaler thats merely horizontal doesnt make much sense to me. but then again, im studying chemical engineering, not electrical
Computer engineering FTW!

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Old 01-26-07, 10:29 AM   #20
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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Originally Posted by Marvel_us
Computer engineering FTW!

Muahahaha!
Same here heh.
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Old 01-26-07, 10:31 AM   #21
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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Computer engineering FTW!

Muahahaha!
Already have my degree :P
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Old 01-26-07, 10:33 AM   #22
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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Already have my degree :P
Give me about a year and a half.

I've always wondered this maybe someone here knows. Would there be anyway for them to use Cell or RSX to implement AA/AF in PS2 backwards compatibility?
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Old 01-26-07, 10:35 AM   #23
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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Originally Posted by Marvel_us
Give me about a year and a half.

I've always wondered this maybe someone here knows. Would there be anyway for them to use Cell or RSX to implement AA/AF in PS2 backwards compatibility?
Yeah its possible with software emulation, but right now I'm pretty sure it's using the hardware emulation from the PS2/PS1 chipsets. Who knows if that will change in the future.
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Old 01-26-07, 10:51 AM   #24
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

BS of CS and EE ....

and back on topic, the more we sit her and analyze what they are doing, the more all of us, even the Sony hardcore, are doing and
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