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Old 01-26-07, 11:48 AM   #25
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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Originally Posted by Bad_Boy
Yeah its possible with software emulation, but right now I'm pretty sure it's using the hardware emulation from the PS2/PS1 chipsets. Who knows if that will change in the future.
It should be possible even in hardware... The PS2 was able to enhance PSX games right from launch and it had PSX hardware aswell to aid in Backwards compatibility.
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Old 01-26-07, 01:19 PM   #26
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

This is simply odd, and I'm happy to re-award Sony the WTF award again.
So we have:
-No hardware scaler at launch.
Of which is now replaced with:
-Software Development Kit functionality to access either a) a hardware scaler or b) hardware in the RSX that can be used to scale? Are we sure there is a dedicated hardware scaler rather than use of hardware that can scale?
-This SDK functionality only provides horizontal but not vertical scaling (but why?)
-This scaling requires the developer to update their games, rather than simply being part of the system that "scales it regardless of any game/app" your using.
-AND!!! there are reports that the 1.5 update is now scaling+AA ps2 games without getting new ps2 games.

As a direct comparision, the dedicated hardware scaler chip in the 360, will upscale/downscale to any supported resolution from any supported resolution with "zero" work from the developer.

I'm glad for PS3 owners, this should help a little.. but jeeze Sony WTF!
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Old 01-26-07, 01:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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-AND!!! there are reports that the 1.5 update is now scaling+AA ps2 games without getting new ps2 games.
Scaling to what exactly? I haven't noticed any AA or res higher than 480p when I tested the 1.5 update.
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Old 01-26-07, 01:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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Scaling to what exactly? I haven't noticed any AA or res higher than 480p when I tested the 1.5 update.
As I don't own a ps3, here's my reference.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thum...2007/1/24/6735
"It looks like many of the issues with PS2 games are fixed, and that's great news to people who want to get rid of their old systems when they move to a PS3. I put in Final Fantasy X-2 and it looks great, no jaggies or artifacts. My next stop was Resident Evil 4, and it looks just as good as I remember. This is a big deal, and a large problem with the PS3 has disappeared. "
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Old 01-26-07, 01:50 PM   #29
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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Originally Posted by Lyme
As I don't own a ps3, here's my reference.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thum...2007/1/24/6735
"It looks like many of the issues with PS2 games are fixed, and that's great news to people who want to get rid of their old systems when they move to a PS3. I put in Final Fantasy X-2 and it looks great, no jaggies or artifacts. My next stop was Resident Evil 4, and it looks just as good as I remember. This is a big deal, and a large problem with the PS3 has disappeared. "
He's not saying that they added AA or upscaled it, he's basically saying that the artifacting and extra jaggies that were given to the game due to poor BC are now gone and the game looks like it should on the PS2.
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Old 01-26-07, 01:51 PM   #30
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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Originally Posted by Lyme
As I don't own a ps3, here's my reference.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thum...2007/1/24/6735
"It looks like many of the issues with PS2 games are fixed, and that's great news to people who want to get rid of their old systems when they move to a PS3. I put in Final Fantasy X-2 and it looks great, no jaggies or artifacts. My next stop was Resident Evil 4, and it looks just as good as I remember. This is a big deal, and a large problem with the PS3 has disappeared. "
Well it's not exactly "no" jaggies, they're still there since there's no AA. However the jaggies looked worse than on PS2 before the 1.5 update. Games look good now but I'm hoping for some type of forced AA in BC and maybe scaling up to HD but that might be wishful thinking for now.

EDIT: Damn second time I was beaten today, lol oh well.
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Old 01-26-07, 04:47 PM   #31
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

LOL @ all u kiddies from a PhD in CS and IE
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Old 01-26-07, 08:27 PM   #32
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Computer Science FTMFW!
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Old 01-26-07, 09:00 PM   #33
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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Originally Posted by Namrok
Actually, after having actually read the article (I probably should have done that first) I just had a giant WTF moment.

The scaler only supports horizontal scaling. So to support 1080p/i if the game renders in 720p (due to resource constraints) they have to change the resolution from 720p to 960x1080, then stretch it to 1920x1080. There is either no vertical scaler, or Sony for some bizarre reason doesn't want people to use it yet, maybe they don't have firmware written for it. Now intermediate resolutions can be used instead of 960x1080, ones that are closer to 1920x1080 assuming you have power to spare for it. But I really have to wonder what stretching 960 pixels to double it's width would do to IQ. And the fact that you have to tweak and program for all this on a game by game basis is just sloppy, plain and simple. Scaling is something the OS should handle.

Ah well, as much as I think "worst engineering ever" when I read about that, it probably won't effect things too much. It's just retarded is all.
Err, do you even NEED a scaler to do straight horizontal scaling? If all it does is double the pixel size in a single direction, the same can be accomplished through software with hardly any performance hit. In fact many early PS2 games did just that: they were rendered in 320x480 and then output at double the horizontal size. But really, the "half 1080p stretched to full 1080p" might actually work well at times, since it would at least allow developers to support 1080p without much of a performance hit over 720p.

But then it's still relatively pointless unless your TV handles a native 1080p signal better than a 720p one, and right now there aren't even many 1080p TVs on the market yet.
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Old 01-26-07, 09:05 PM   #34
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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Err, do you even NEED a scaler to do straight horizontal scaling? If all it does is double the pixel size in a single direction, the same can be accomplished through software with hardly any performance hit. In fact many early PS2 games did just that: they were rendered in 320x480 and then output at double the horizontal size. But really, the "half 1080p stretched to full 1080p" might actually work well at times, since it would at least allow developers to support 1080p without much of a performance hit over 720p.

But then it's still relatively pointless unless your TV handles a native 1080p signal better than a 720p one, and right now there aren't even many 1080p TVs on the market yet.
It's not pointless, it fixes the problem for people with 1080i/480p sets. Also, there are a very good amount of 1080p sets on the market right now. Those of which are steadily dropping in price.
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Old 01-26-07, 09:35 PM   #35
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

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But then it's still relatively pointless unless your TV handles a native 1080p signal better than a 720p one, and right now there aren't even many 1080p TVs on the market yet.
We heard this same excuse last year; As Marvel_us said, this year and beyond thats not so true.
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Old 01-26-07, 09:57 PM   #36
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Default Re: Beyond3D article on PS3 scaler (yes, there is one)

Mine is 1080p.
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