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Old 02-24-07, 01:55 PM   #73
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Default Re: Sony Risks Falling Out of Console Battle

We (at Blockbuster) just now got Tony Hawk P8 and Virtua Fighter 5 in yesterday. Only 2 people have rented Madden 07 and 3 people have rented Full Auto 2. PS3 isn't doing good anywhere. The reason we don't order more PS3 games is because we KNOW that the PS3 isn't selling.
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Old 02-24-07, 02:14 PM   #74
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Default Re: Sony Risks Falling Out of Console Battle

Well I won't argue that the PS3 is not worth buying as a pure gaming console right now. I own one and have a total of two games for it right now that I actually play - Resistance and Virtua Fighter 5. I got Call of Duty 3 as part of a bundle but I already beat it on my 360 so I have not even started it up yet. If someone has a decent HDTV and is into watching a lot of movies at home then the Blu-ray player it has makes it a worthwhile investment.
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Old 02-24-07, 07:34 PM   #75
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Default Re: Sony Risks Falling Out of Console Battle

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Originally Posted by Arioch
Well I won't argue that the PS3 is not worth buying as a pure gaming console right now. I own one and have a total of two games for it right now that I actually play - Resistance and Virtua Fighter 5. I got Call of Duty 3 as part of a bundle but I already beat it on my 360 so I have not even started it up yet. If someone has a decent HDTV and is into watching a lot of movies at home then the Blu-ray player it has makes it a worthwhile investment.
I agree, I was looking for a HD movie player and decided on the Playstation because of its versatility. If I bought it with the intention of gaming only, I probably would be a bit disappointed right now. I like Sony's strategy of providing a reason for adults to want it as well as kids. I think it will work out for them in the long run.
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Old 02-25-07, 08:00 AM   #76
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Default Re: Sony Risks Falling Out of Console Battle

last couple of days, i went to local bestbuy and saw 10+ ps3s on top of shelves along with 360s. still no wii in sight.

i guess it depends where you live and yeah, several retails reduced their order for ps3 because they don't sell well and a bit harder to find anywhere now (from what i've told from bestbuy manager). that might change after euro launch.
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Old 02-25-07, 03:39 PM   #77
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Default Re: Sony Risks Falling Out of Console Battle

http://www.theinq.com/default.aspx?article=37833

Todays Article:

Quote:
SONY JUST KEEPS digging a hole for itself deeper and deeper with the latest slap in the face to all of its customers.
Not satisfied with simply rootkitting its customers, Sony has now changed the specs of the Euro PS3 after customers put their money down. Worse yet, it violated the one fundamental tenet of console development.

What is that? Thou shalt not change the hardware functionality, ever, for any reason. If you are not working in consoles, this might seem like an easy one to trivialise, but it is the single fundamental reason that the console economics work and the one thing software writers base everything on.

One of the main draws of writing a game for a console is that you don't have to test it against 53 different GPUs, seven OSes, each with 11 patches, Microsoft holes and quirks aplenty, and enough combinations to break any sane person. There is one platform, it has one set of features, it comes from one source, there is one neck to strangle, and any bugs that are there on day one will be there on the last day of year five.

If you use a feature to speed up your code, it will not be 'fixed' in rev 17 of the console, anything that works on rev 1 will work on hardware rev 3.2, this is an assurance, and the basic promise behind console work. If anything changes, and software breaks, who gets the tech support calls at $10 per or so to handle? The software companies. This is the same reason Microsoft pawns off support calls to the OEMs, because they are expensive.

It all boils down to this, you write to a spec, that spec will be there to the end. If you write Mario Killers 19 and it hits on console release day, you can be assured that the software will run on the last console that rolls off the line a decade later. You also bank your economics on this.

If a console maker so much as fixes a bug, it can and usually does break software compatibility and that makes users mad. It is also very expensive for the software companies to deal with, and on top of it, gives them a bad name. You also can't effectively patch a DVD, and economically speaking, replacing a million copies of a game in the field is not financially tenable.

So, to change the tiniest thing, a console maker risks the wrath of the entire ecosystem, which is why it is the fundamental tenet of consoles, you simply don't do it. This is not to say it hasn't been done, but there is usually a damn good reason why it happens. On the Atari Jaguar, the bugs that were there on day one were there in the revs of the console it did later.

So, that brings us back to Sony and the removal of the hardware PS2 compatibility in the Euro PS3s. This is very problematic. The first reason is that if anyone wrote software that takes advantage of these features, the software will break on Euro PS3s. The state of games on the PS3 is pretty pitiful now, but this could still affect millions of disks.

Why did Sony decide on this callous disregard for its customers? Simple, money. Sony is taking a bath on the PS3, losing by many accounts, hundreds of dollars per unit. It is losing dev support, sales are a fraction of where it wants them to be, and it is on the verge of slipping into the console death spiral (part 2 here).

The problem is that Sony management is short sighted to the point of being dangerous. It is 'fixing' one part of the triangle at the cost of the other two. This cheeses off software makers more than you can imagine, and it also cheeses off customers. The net effect of this is short term gain at long term expense. How do many calls do you think EA will get when its games don't work? Think people will call Sony or the software maker?

The number I hear is $27 or so. For this pittance, it is screwing all of its European customers, and it knows it. People placed pre-orders a year ago, usually putting down a fair deposit. They were told the console would have certain features, one of the big selling points is backwards compatibility to cover up the dearth of launch titles. This is not a minor checkbox item like the availability of accessories in a certain color, this is a key feature. And Sony broke it for money. It violated the fundamental tenet of consoles for short term bucks worth $27.

Sony is wrong and it knows it. Worse yet, it is covering it up in order to screw consumers and hopefully lessen the pre-order drop outs and people demanding refunds. How do I know this? According to Game Industry Biz, it is not going to release the list of what works until after the console goes on sale. You have no way of knowing what features you will get on your preorder other than they are less than promised.

Sony will obviously counter that it is busily adding to the list, and anything it put up now would be incomplete. Amazingly, some people are actually dumb enough to believe this. This is the web, you can update a list like this in about 30 seconds by uploading a text file. There is no excuse for Sony not to publish the list now with a disclaimer saying "....More coming soon" if it is indeed working on it.

The way it is desperately attempting to hide the missing functionality, hide the effects, and dodge questions about it indicates it knows there is an impending storm, and it is trying to not have it blow up in its face until after the initial sales surge.

In the end, it is more classic Sony behavior, screw the customer for short term money. it violated the fundamental tenet of consoles to make a quick buck, this is the most un-Japanese business practice I have ever seen from the company. Rather than helping the company, it is simply accelerating down the console death spiral. It is also doing it on the back of European consumers.
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Old 02-25-07, 04:44 PM   #78
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Default Re: Sony Risks Falling Out of Console Battle

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So, that brings us back to Sony and the removal of the hardware PS2 compatibility in the Euro PS3s. This is very problematic. The first reason is that if anyone wrote software that takes advantage of these features, the software will break on Euro PS3s.
Hopefully not many developers are using features from the compatibility mode in the first place. That is, I'd hope they would write games for the PS3 using the PS3 hardware, not the PS2s. I wonder if any developers do that.
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Old 02-25-07, 04:45 PM   #79
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Default Re: Sony Risks Falling Out of Console Battle

I will up front and say I dislike Sony, to make it clear where my bias is.

This last article is an example of the Inqu twist that goes a bit overboard. Without proof that any game makers made PS3 games that used the backwards compatibility chips for the game, then their whole point on not changing the system is a bit bogus.

In terms of backwards compatibility, yeah I agree 100% with this in that they are screwing over the Europe customers again, and trying to make the PS3 die there. I can agree that eventually its Ok for them to move to an emulation system for backwards compatibility, but it seems like they jumped the gun on it.

I can't see how some of what they are doing can bee sen as good business moves.
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Old 02-26-07, 04:52 AM   #80
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Default Re: Sony Risks Falling Out of Console Battle

Quote:
Originally Posted by OWA
Hopefully not many developers are using features from the compatibility mode in the first place. That is, I'd hope they would write games for the PS3 using the PS3 hardware, not the PS2s. I wonder if any developers do that.
LMAO. Exactly what I was going to say... What the hell does the ps2 hardware have to do with PS3 games.... This article is very confusing. Looks like it was written at the exact moment they heard about the hardware changes, and they were so HAPPY and DROOLING to point out that sony actually thinks about screwing their customers beacuase they like doing that... Hellooooo, this is money we are talking about. And pls lets wait till it goes out and than yell at sony for not giving us a ps2 in the ps3.

Although now that I think about... ALOT of ppl have ps2s... ALOT. Like, everyone.
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Old 02-26-07, 08:43 AM   #81
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Default Re: Sony Risks Falling Out of Console Battle

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Although now that I think about... ALOT of ppl have ps2s... ALOT. Like, everyone.
I actually sold mine because it was collecting dust, took that money and bought my HD-DVD add-on drive.
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Old 02-26-07, 08:55 AM   #82
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Default Re: Sony Risks Falling Out of Console Battle

no PS2 here...
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Old 02-26-07, 09:06 AM   #83
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Default Re: Sony Risks Falling Out of Console Battle

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Originally Posted by six_storm
I actually sold mine because it was collecting dust, took that money and bought my HD-DVD add-on drive.
Right... you got 200 bucks for a PS2?
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Old 02-26-07, 10:09 AM   #84
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Default Re: Sony Risks Falling Out of Console Battle

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The killer here is that the PS3 dev costs are between 2-3 times that of the 360 and about 5x that of the Xbox1 or PS2.
I'd appreciate if anyone can verify this, 'cause I don't buy it at all. Aside from the price of the SDK, licencing and such, the only difference in development cost would be the number of people working on it multiplied by development time.

In other words, unless a PS3 game takes 2-3 times longer to develop (per capita working on it) that number simply doesn't work.
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