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Old 03-03-07, 09:01 AM   #25
CaptNKILL
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Default Re: Barcelona Architecture: AMD on the Counterattack

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow001
Honestly,and this is just my opinion of course,with 4 CPU cores in one Die,and given all the changes in the architecture,to make the barcelona chips much better performers,when operating at the same clocks that current athlon chips work at,you'll get a hell of a lot of CPU power under the hood,so the need to overclock a 4 processor system kinda escapes me,as even at stock clocks,the system is waiting for the user most of the time,not the other way around....
Waiting for the user?

How about games? There are still massively CPU limited portions of games and its only going to get worse as polygon counts increase and physics are improved. The more CPU power the better. Overclocking is a no brainer for most people who buy high end hardware.
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Old 03-03-07, 10:46 AM   #26
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Default Re: Barcelona Architecture: AMD on the Counterattack

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptNKILL
Waiting for the user?

How about games? There are still massively CPU limited portions of games and its only going to get worse as polygon counts increase and physics are improved. The more CPU power the better. Overclocking is a no brainer for most people who buy high end hardware.


Polygon amounts and the geometry work overall,is completely handled by the video card these days,and like i said before,while Quad core systems are still reserved for the high end market as of right now,Intel and AMD will have Quad core chips selling for 500$ within 4 months from now....


While i agree that the more CPU power the better,the fact is that within the last 24 months,which is well under what the average game takes to develop these days(4 years on average),especially if they're building they own graphics engine,we went from a single CPU core to having systems with 4 of them,so the CPU power is there,as you can even have following...


1 full CPU core for nothing but advanced physics.
1 full CPU core for nothing but advanced AI.
1 full CPU core to help out with whatever can't be done with the graphics card alone(terrain generation in alan wake is handled by the CPU for instance).

1 CPU core for nothing but interactivety issues and collision detection and game control....



In previous years,all of the above only took a percentage of the CPU power of a single core,so developers had to balance things out very carefully,while still making the game better than previous ones were,so they were fairly limited in what they could do with a single core....Mind you,programing in multiple threads like the above example is a real pain,but the potential is enormous for the next generation of games,not just in terms of how they look,but how they behave/react/think too...



The other point is that by the time there is at least a few games out that can leverage those 4 cores to their fullest extent and the games themselves are amazing,high end systems within 12 months might very well have not 4 but 8 CPU cores,and each of those cores will perform better than current ones,as AMD will have barcelona out by then even for regular desktops,and not just servers,and Intel will have chips based on yorkfield,wich there will be a version using dual die's,each with 4 processor cores,in a single CPU package....Think of it like the kentsfield,but with 2x as many CPU cores,and enhanced relative to what exists today....


Even if we ignore the fact that as of right now,it is highly optional to even need to overclock a 4 processor system,Will you still make a case for overclocking even when there's 8 CPU cores in your system next year,and more processing power than developers can harness in games,simply because you have the option to overclock,and not because you need too?
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Old 03-03-07, 09:09 PM   #27
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Default Re: Barcelona Architecture: AMD on the Counterattack

Fwiw, the initial samples are testing well. No comparative performance benches yet.
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Old 03-03-07, 09:58 PM   #28
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Smile Re: Barcelona Architecture: AMD on the Counterattack

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow001
Honestly,and this is just my opinion of course,with 4 CPU cores in one Die,and given all the changes in the architecture,to make the barcelona chips much better performers,when operating at the same clocks that current athlon chips work at,you'll get a hell of a lot of CPU power under the hood,so the need to overclock a 4 processor system kinda escapes me,as even at stock clocks,the system is waiting for the user most of the time,not the other way around....
Never is enough

But seriously, i hope that they could be overclocked close to c2d chips, either way, maybe intel could still have the lead, cause, maybe IPC is higher on Barcelona than in C2D, but, if C2D overclocks to the sky ... you know.

Anyway, intel is working on a refresh too & with 45nm, so, it's going to be really interesting.

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4109
Quote:
It is hard to predict which architecture will win eventually but it seems like AMD has packed more innovations into their K8L architecture while Intel moving onto 45nm process benefits its Yorkfield greatly in terms of lower power consumption, higher clock speed and a much bigger L2 cache.
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Old 03-03-07, 11:04 PM   #29
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Default Re: Barcelona Architecture: AMD on the Counterattack

Quote:
Originally Posted by walterman
Never is enough

But seriously, i hope that they could be overclocked close to c2d chips, either way, maybe intel could still have the lead, cause, maybe IPC is higher on Barcelona than in C2D, but, if C2D overclocks to the sky ... you know.

Anyway, intel is working on a refresh too & with 45nm, so, it's going to be really interesting.

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4109

Well,in the overall scheme of things and considering that Intel will always have the lead when it comes to fab processes,releasing them earlier than AMD can,simply because of the huge R&D budgets they have,i only see one possibility....


AMD has no choice but to aim for better IPC than the C2D....I'd say they'd have to aim for at least 20~25% better overall performance with the barcelona core,when running at the same clock as the C2D,since Intel will have at least a good 9 month lead with their 45 mn process,when they release chips at that size in late 2007,wich will allow intel to clock their chips far higher than the current ones at 65nm and within reasonable power limits/Heat output.



Basically,AMD just can't get into a clock speed race with intel given the fab process disadvantage they'll always have,their engineers know this all too well,so they have make the overall achitecture of the barcelona as efficient as they possibly can for the clock speeds that 65nm allow,as they'll be basically stuck with that fab process for the next 18 months at the very minimum....Intel will have moved on to 45 nm well before then.
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Old 03-06-07, 07:29 PM   #30
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Default Re: Barcelona Architecture: AMD on the Counterattack

Looks like it's looking good for barcelona btw,at least when it comes to floating point math performance...check this out.


Quote:
According to Mario Rivas, executive vice president of AMD's computing products group, the company's Barcelona will yield 42 percent better "floating-point" performance than Intel's Xeon X5355 Clovertown in SPEC_fp benchmark tests.

For SPEC_int, which measures integer-processing tasks, Barcelona will have a leg up on Clovertown again with a performance advantage of more than 10 percent, Rivas said.

"There's speculation about what's going on with CPU business," said Henri Richard, AMD's executive vice president and chief sales and marketing officer. "Where's Barcelona? I can tell you it's more of a killer product than anyone thought. I'm not bragging. I know what we've got."

While Richard admitted that business is tough at the moment he said he's confident that AMD is "in a great position going forward."


Cloverton is basically the server version of the Kentsfield Quad core CPU btw,and this particular X5355 cloverton CPU,runs at the same speed at the highest end Kentsfield version(2.67 ghz),while it seems that at least initially,the highest speed grade for the barcelona will top off at 2.4 ghz...



http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2099613,00.asp
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Old 03-06-07, 08:40 PM   #31
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Default Re: Barcelona Architecture: AMD on the Counterattack

This is all worthless jibber jabber until they pull an Intel and start releasing real benchmarks,real soon...like Now.Intel was proud of C2D,and let Anand
post up a series of benchmarks that showed how good it was.AMD is being awfully quiet about Barcelona.Throwing up 'paper' specs,and nothing else.
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Old 03-06-07, 09:12 PM   #32
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Default Re: Barcelona Architecture: AMD on the Counterattack

Quote:
Originally Posted by SH0DAN
This is all worthless jibber jabber until they pull an Intel and start releasing real benchmarks,real soon...like Now.Intel was proud of C2D,and let Anand
post up a series of benchmarks that showed how good it was.AMD is being awfully quiet about Barcelona.Throwing up 'paper' specs,and nothing else.

That's the thing though,it isn't just paper specs,as that spec_fp and spec_Int results are from programs that specifically test floating point and integer performance respectively,and are a widely accepted benchmark,wich has been in use for years,wich in this case,the barcelona core as as it is right now,though the actual clock speed isn't reveiled,beats an Intel Quad core cloverton at 2.67 ghz by 42% in the first,and more than 10% in the second....


What isn't known is the gaming results yet,but since gaming performance is largely floating point intensive as far as the CPU is concerned,i think it's fair to say that the barcelona won't disapoint given the results with Spec_fp.



Besides,Even Intel didn't offcially allow for the first benchmarks of it's C2D chips by anantech until april,even though the official release was in june last year,so AMD may do the same thing,or might not....
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