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Old 03-14-07, 05:08 PM   #109
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tygerwoody
bah,

I hate instances. I will never play an MMORPG based off instances EVER again.
Ya see I don't get this. Why is having your own dungeon bad? I hate waiting in line to kill a boss that only spawns twice a day. Now taking raid number 275! LOL no thanks. Just get a group going and have all the time you want on your bosses and loot. The bosses respawn so the whole premiss is not realistic and only the bigger guild have the luxury to camp high end bosses. That is bull pucky. Only hard core EQ types like world dungeons. The rest don't.
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Old 03-14-07, 05:15 PM   #110
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

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Originally Posted by Ninjaman09
That's what instances are designed to prevent. They force you to utilize your class's skills to the fullest extent and coordinate with your group members to succeed and are balanced around their intended group size. While many of the 5-man instances before TBC were fairly do-able with a couple poor players, the instances at level 70 force the group to work together and each player makes a big difference. The endgame instances have an unofficial chain of difficulty, as well as "heroic mode" versions which introduce much stronger enemies and leave little room for mistakes, but reward the party with better loot and various other benefits. Then endgame raiding comes into play. The first instance would be Karazhan, Medivh's tower. It's a very large dungeon that requires a group of 10 players to defeat quite a few bosses (I believe there are over 11) as well as quite a large amount of "trash" mobs.

Instances reset either once you manually reset them (for normal 5-mans) or on a timer (for raids). Most raids reset weekly, that is, all the bosses and trash mobs return to be killed again. Most guilds schedule their raids around this timer (Tuesdays, usually). Raid "progression" means the amount of bosses your guild is capable of killing. Raiding provides players with the best possible loot in the game at the highest difficulty. When people call WoW "easy" they may be correct in referring to the leveling process (on a non-PvP server anyway) but as far as endgame raiding in the expansion is concerned, I'd be interested to see what could be more difficult. Communication and coordination issues aside, many of the fights are very difficult to learn and master. The penalty for death in WoW becomes very noticable when you die over and over again all night long and have to pay significant sums of cash to repair your gear.

The Burning Crusade raiding endgame is tremendous in scope, containing a 10-man and 4 25-man instances (at release, several more are planned) all of which require guilds to complete Heroic Difficulty 5-man instances as well as requisite 10 and 25 man raid instances.

And characters can choose to skip raiding and still experience a rich endgame with the Battlegrounds and Arena instances. These instances are for team-based PvP with different objectives depending on the instance. Killing enemies or winning arena matches nets you points to spend on new powerful gear, which is designed to make you more competitive and powerful in PvP. Raiding gear does not necessarily help you in PvP, and vice versa.
This is the weakest part of the BC expansion. The regular 5 man instnaces are a joke and a waste of time. You get CRAP gear from the bosses. You get better gear leveling then you have to grind rep to get the heroic key. Ok getting this key is easy. The best way to do this is to skip the regualr 5 mans, grind your rep, get some good gear then learn the heroic mode.
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Old 03-14-07, 05:24 PM   #111
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by UDawg
Ya see I don't get this. Why is having your own dungeon bad? I hate waiting in line to kill a boss that only spawns twice a day. Now taking raid number 275! LOL no thanks. Just get a group going and have all the time you want on your bosses and loot. The bosses respawn so the whole premiss is not realistic and only the bigger guild have the luxury to camp high end bosses. That is bull pucky. Only hard core EQ types like world dungeons. The rest don't.
Well, Udawg that's a "tad" extreme In wow the timers are set to a week or so and you get a respawn of the dungeon.

In EQ/Vanguard style open dungeons, the dungeon repops quickly so that you can do it over again quickly and the bosses repop every couple of days. This translates into a guild conceivably being able to do said dungeon more often and gain power/items faster.

Now I know you say that you have to compete with other guilds and that's where community building comes into play. The leaders of the guilds actually powerful enough to "do" a certain dungeon will coopertate and set up a server rotation for them and may even team up to co-op the dungeons in an effort to learn how to do it.

You will say that instances mean you don't have to bother with that and there there are no limits on who can try the dungeon but I've never seen too many issues with guilds not being willing to give another guild a shot at the boss. If the new guild fails, then the boss is still there so the established guild has lost nothing.

Then you have to factor in the sheer number of dungeons. Compare how many VG has now in it's early state to what WoW has now and I'm pretty sure VG already has more total.

That's how Sigil/Verant/SOE get around the **** blocking is by having MANY dungeons available to do so that while one guild is working one, the other guilds can work the others and this rotation works! It's been proven 100%.

My old EQ guild was able to have major raids every night of the week and not be able to do all the raiding content available.

There's ups and downs depending on how you choose to look at each approach.

Is the glass half full or empty?
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Old 03-14-07, 05:27 PM   #112
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

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Well, Udawg that's a "tad" extreme In wow the timers are set to a week or so and you get a respawn of the dungeon.

In EQ/Vanguard style open dungeons, the dungeon repops quickly so that you can do it over again quickly and the bosses repop every couple of days. This translates into a guild conceivably being able to do said dungeon more often.

Now I know you say that you have to compete with other guilds and that's where community building comes into play. The leaders of the guilds actually powerful enough to "do" a certain dungeon will coopertate and set up a server rotation for them and may even team up to co-op the dungeons in an effort to learn how to do it.

You will say that instances mean you don't have to bother with that and there there are no limits on who can try the dungeon but I've never seen too many issues with guilds not being willing to give another guild a shot at the boss. If the new guild fails, then the boss is still there so the established guild has lost nothing.

Then you have to factor in the sheer number of dungeons. Compare how many VG has now in it's early state to what WoW has now and I'm pretty sure VG already has more total.

That's how Sigil/Verant/SOE get around the **** blocking is by having MANY dungeons available to do so that while one guild is working one, the other guilds can work the others and this rotation works! It's been proven 100%.

There's ups and downs depending on how you choose to look at each approach.

Is the glass half full or empty?
yeah it is but come on you know it is funny. LOL

Keep in mind that there are 3 or more bosses in each instance including quests with in each. MC has 9 bosses alone.

I don't know which has more only that I am sure that both games have ample opertunity to get good gear via a boss.
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Old 03-14-07, 05:28 PM   #113
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

Also, the scripting thing is kinda iffy. I never saw a whole lot of scripting in wow that made me stop and think "man this is cool".

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I didn't enjoy my wow raiding..just saying I didn't feel it offered anything I hadn't seen done before.


I enjoy both styles really to be honest...I just found I "personally" enjoyed the guild to guild communication that open dungeons fostered.

Maybe I'm weird
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Old 03-14-07, 05:54 PM   #114
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

Well from what you tell me it sounds like Blizzard definitely has the gameplay aspect down. It sounds like everything is well thought out. I just wish that the game didn't look so dated.

I didn't recognize it until now, but all of those screens I posted before are from Burning Crusade which was just released. So they were taken being played on newer hardware. Does the game really look like this?





I don't mean to keep harping on it, but no amount of AA or AF in the world can help that. It's just a graphical mess. I don't know how any of you can say it doesn't look just like an N64 clone. The trees especially look horrible. I can count every single one of the polys in them.
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Old 03-14-07, 06:08 PM   #115
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

It's one of those subjective things really. You have to see it in motion. I am a graphics wh*re and I have to admit I love the look of the game world in WoW when I'm playing...it really draws you (me) in.

And yes that is really how it looks.
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Old 03-14-07, 06:12 PM   #116
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

Yeah...Thats basically how it looks (WOW). It can look better (as stated above), but IMO you either like the cartoony style or you dont. I dont.

As to instancing - IT SUCKS. Sorry guys, but isn't the point of an MMO to have a persistant world? Instances take away from that. A high end raid mob should not just "be there for the taking". It should be something to be proud of when you beat that elevates you over other guilds. I prefer high end rare spawns to accomplish this rather than "we just beat a really hard dungeon. Were going to do it again tomorrow. And again the next day. I keep seeing people talk about how in WOW they raided x dungeon for a month blah blah blah... I dunno...I just don't get it I guess....But to each thier own
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Old 03-14-07, 06:14 PM   #117
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

Alright, after watching this video I've changed my opinion a little.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXLoy...elated&search=

I think WoW is just one of those games you have to see in motion, and I can accept that. I liked what I saw from that video.. I like the art direction and how crazy the design is. It's definitely a far cry from the path they took with Vanguard, so I can see why so many of you find it hard to change. They look like two completely different games.

WoW looks more fast-paced.. almost like a platformer. Vanguard is slower and more methodical, more life-like.

I think I'm of the same opinion as Tyger--both are good games. One decides to take one approach and the other decides to take a completely different approach to MMOs. I like them both. I like Vanguard's realistic look and feel, but I've always been a fan of fantasy-like craziness like you see in WoW.

So when all is said and done, I'll probably own all 3. Vanguard, WoW, and EQ2.

And then I will officially give up my entire life, because I barely get anything done as it is with just Vanguard.
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Old 03-14-07, 06:43 PM   #118
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

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Originally Posted by Xion X2
Alright, after watching this video I've changed my opinion a little.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXLoy...elated&search=

I think WoW is just one of those games you have to see in motion, and I can accept that. I liked what I saw from that video.. I like the art direction and how crazy the design is. It's definitely a far cry from the path they took with Vanguard, so I can see why so many of you find it hard to change. They look like two completely different games.

WoW looks more fast-paced.. almost like a platformer. Vanguard is slower and more methodical, more life-like.

I think I'm of the same opinion as Tyger--both are good games. One decides to take one approach and the other decides to take a completely different approach to MMOs. I like them both. I like Vanguard's realistic look and feel, but I've always been a fan of fantasy-like craziness like you see in WoW.

So when all is said and done, I'll probably own all 3. Vanguard, WoW, and EQ2.

And then I will officially give up my entire life, because I barely get anything done as it is with just Vanguard.
Some of the best times I've had in WoW is just running around the country side flagged and seeing what happens. Some time huge fights errupt and it is a blast.

I am glad you understand the graphics in WoW. You are correct that they are cartoony but the graphics lend it's self to this game and its pace. I don't think Vanguard with its great graphics could handle that sort of fast pace. To much is going on at once and you can be dead before you know it. As you said, you really have to experience it to understand it.

I still think Vanguard looks great. I really like it. The only think I like visually are the cities. They are bland to me but I absolutely love out in the world and in the wild. It is great.

I tell you what, if you pick up WoW hop on to the Elune server. I will bring you into my guild and help you on your way. If ya don't like it then bail. It's all cool to me. Tyger and his guild were great to me when I was trying out Vanguard. It was a lot of fun.

BTW check this game out. http://community.ageofconan.com/wsp/...&selected=null

This is where it is going to be at for me. I am so jazzed about this game. It will be DX10 and blow Vanguard away in the graphics department. You can pillage whole cities build cities ect. It looks amazing. Check out the videos. I love the dark look to it. This is my type of MMO. If this came out at the same time as WoW, I wouldn't give WoW the time of day.
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Old 03-14-07, 08:02 PM   #119
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

yay now everyone is happy and understand one another
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Old 03-14-07, 09:47 PM   #120
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

Quote:
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The lore in warcraft is pretty deep. That is what I was talking about.

Who cares if Blizzard are money grubbers? All business are out to make a profit. LOL
Yes the lore is good but not really integrated into the depth of the quests. But almost all MMO's suffer from such problems so I can't say WOW's worse than any other, as for all business out to make money, it's true. How ever Blizzard could add a little more content for all the money they make.
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