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Old 03-13-07, 09:28 PM   #73
Xion X2
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

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Originally Posted by UDawg
Sorry, no one plays Vangaurd. They are all playing WoW.
Of course they are. WoW has been out 2 1/2 years longer and has had much more time to gain a fanbase. People who have been playing that game for 500+ hours aren't likely to suddenly drop it for an MMO that has only been out for a month.

Give Vanguard that same amount of time, and we'll see what it can do. There are already many who have migrated over from WoW or Everquest.

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It is one dimensional. Either you grind killing mobs or you grind harvesting, or crafting.
See, this is the kind of contradictory crap I'm talking about. You say Vanguard is "one-dimensional." One-dimensional does not mean what you're saying it does. You just brought up two other huge aspects of gameplay in Vanguard in addition to grinding.

That is not "one-dimensional." That is multi-dimensional.

If you think there's too much grinding in Vanguard, then just say "there's too much grinding." But the label you're trying to apply doesn't fit. Vanguard is anything but one-dimensional.

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You are at a huge disadvantate by not playing WoW. WoW is faster paced, better physics and great PVP.
I'm sure I'm at at least a slight disadvantage by never playing it. I plan on picking up another MMO soon to test out, but at this point that other MMO will be EQ2 before WoW. EQ2 at least has decent visuals, from what I've seen.

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Graphics? You really want to talk about graphics?
Umm, yeah. I really want to talk about graphics.

*scratches head*

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LOL! at least WoW's engine works.
How hard is it to emulate crayola crap?

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Sure its stylized cartoon look may not look at good as Vanguards excelent realistic look but they knew enough to not over bloat graphics in a faster paced game.
Vanguard is not built for current machines. I have the feeling they wanted to future-proof it so it doesn't look like recycled dog crap two years from now like WoW looks. Even my 8800GTX SLI system cannot run it completely maxed out at 50fps, although it can come close.

And yes, obviously some of that has to do with optimization, but some of it is due to the fact that Vanguard is just a very damn good looking game and has an unparalleled draw distance. It's also the first game to use volumetric clouds just like Crysis will. The VG team says they cause a significant performance hit.

When you say the game runs like "crap," then those are factors that you have to take into consideration. Turn these new graphics effects like volumetric clouds and the insane draw distance off, and your older machine will run the game much better.

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The more graphics you have the more you slow the online experience down.
How so? Has nothing to do with it. It has to do with what kind of machine the user is playing it on.

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Ya have to balance out the netcode with the graphics. So if you have to have a high end computer to run it then you appeal to a very small number of people. Blizzard did this right.
I don't think they did it right. Not at all. Screw those who are too lazy or too cheap to go out and buy a decent graphics card for their rigs. Why should the rest of us have to suffer for that?

You don't have to design a game for low-end computers in order for it to be successful. F.E.A.R and Oblivion both sold hundreds of thousands of copies, and both of them pushed current hardware to its limits at maximum settings when they first came out.

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Now in the future Vanguard will get their engine to run smooth but right now it is total crap.
I agree that it has a long way to go, but from what I've heard from others this was the case with both Everquest and WoW when they were first released.

So, I'll guess we'll see. Already in just a month Vanguard runs about 30-40% better overall than it did when it was first released. So they're making good progress. If you turn bloom off and cut back the draw distance a little, then it helps in a big way. My game never drops below 30fps anywhere when I disable SLI and run on a single GTX, and I have everything completely maxed except for draw distance.
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Old 03-13-07, 11:00 PM   #74
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

Hah, you guys take Udawg way too seriously.
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Old 03-14-07, 05:25 AM   #75
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

Tomorrow comes the real test...Installing Vanguard on VistaUltimate32...I know several people using it already so it shouldn't be a problem. It will be interesting to see if there is a performance decrease in Vista...Guess I'll find out....lol

**PS** I got much (non man) luv for Udawg! Bash away sir...I probably won't see it till the next day when I'm at work cause when I'm at home, I'm playing VG :P
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Old 03-14-07, 07:55 AM   #76
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

I won't be going to Vista until they fix the vsync problem. It sucks having to play games without it.
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Old 03-14-07, 09:11 AM   #77
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

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Originally Posted by Xion X2
Umm, because graphics are a big factor in whether or not many people will buy the game/get into the experience?

A game that has cartoony, N64-like graphics such as WoW is really hard for individuals like myself to get into in this day and age when there are other very good MMOs out there like Vanguard which slaughter it in visuals.

I mean, let's be realistic. I like to bring up my emulator every now and then and play some old-skool Zelda for a couple of hours, but I'm not going to sit there in front of it night after night months upon months and play it the length of time that these MMOs require. As I said before, if I'm going to be looking at a game for that length of time, then I want it to be visually impressive.

I don't see why you have a problem with that kind of mindset. If you would adjust a few settings in your graphics panel, then you could get Vanguard locked at 30+fps on your single GTX. I know it's possible, because I've done it. Scale the draw distance down some (not a ton, just a little), turn bloom off, turn shadows down to 50%, and you have a game that runs well and still looks a heck of a lot better than WoW.
Again, I do not like the way Vanguard looks regardless of its more advanced graphics engine. Its uninspired generic artwork makes it very boring. Quality of artwork is more important to me than the graphics engine driving the game. And your assessment of the value of games based on their graphics is extremely subjective. I like state-of-the-art graphics but they're last on my list of priorities. And before you mention my 8800GTX, I want something that can run my games at 1920x1200 without hitches and only the 8800 can do it (even for WoW).

Comparing WoW's graphics to a Nintendo 64 shows just how biased you are. The two aren't even remotely comparable.
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Vanguard is a bit more in depth. Whether you like it or not, it is geared towards a higher age bracket of players(most people i play with are in their 30's).
I don't buy this. It's true WoW has a lot of younger people playing but that's hard to avoid with such a huge subscriber base. While I think a more in-depth crafting system and "death penalty" (which I still fail to see the "mature crowd" draw, EQ had it and everyone played it when they were in high school) are neat, they are game design choices which serve to make Vanguard distinct from WoW but not necessarily "more mature" or whatever. What WoW focuses on is team-based PvP and instanced dungeons, all at the endgame. Despite your greatest efforts your lack of knowledge about WoW's endgame serves to undermine your points. I commonly hear about how easy it is to level, did you ever stop to think that maybe that's the point? Leveling is supposed to be fun, not a mind-numbing grind, and quick so people can experience the much larger endgame that is constantly being added to. And for the record, everyone in my guild is over the age of 25 with the exception of two guys in their early 20s who are still in college.

I'm not trying to bash Vanguard. I'm sure it offers a lot to many players. And if you don't like WoW that's fine. But sometimes I see people say things like "it's impossible to die in WoW", "leveling is so easy and that's all there is to do" etc. just annoys me. Criticize it if you like but at least have your opinions grounded in something resembling fact.
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Old 03-14-07, 09:19 AM   #78
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

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Originally Posted by Ninjaman09
Comparing WoW's graphics to a Nintendo 64 shows just how biased you are. The two aren't even remotely comparable.
QFT.

He must have played WoW on a 5200@medium settings or something to say that. Sure it could use a higher res texture pack, but it looks stunningly beautiful and ALIVE (unlike a certain recent MMO *wink*) when maxed out.
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All MMO's are now baby-school weak. The only good MMO's make your eyes bleed and force you to eat glass. In my day we had to walk uphill in the snow 5 miles *JUST* to log in.
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Old 03-14-07, 10:29 AM   #79
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

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Originally Posted by glObalist
QFT.

He must have played WoW on a 5200@medium settings or something to say that. Sure it could use a higher res texture pack, but it looks stunningly beautiful and ALIVE (unlike a certain recent MMO *wink*) when maxed out.
No, he has never played WoW.

I find it funny that all the Vanguarians get upset when you talk about Vanguard but the WoW player just laugh when you talk about WoW. I thought Vangard was geared towards more mature players? LOL

I give in on points about Vanguard that I like but Vanguardians come back with "it looks like poo rubbed on my screen." LOL!
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Old 03-14-07, 10:39 AM   #80
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

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Originally Posted by pkirby11
Give me a break, WOW has deep stories? Please name a few points to back up the facts you say about WOW. Now remember, I'm not comparing it Vanguard I think the plot in that game is lacking too. I just personally really want to know what is so unique and engrossing about WOWs quests? Go here, kill this mob and get reward. That was deep man. Sorry I played WOW for 2 years straight and I'm done with it, Blizzard is just a money grubbing wh*re!
The lore in warcraft is pretty deep. That is what I was talking about.

Who cares if Blizzard are money grubbers? All business are out to make a profit. LOL
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Old 03-14-07, 11:56 AM   #81
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

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No, he has never played WoW.
I've said on 4-5 different occasions now that I have played WoW. Granted, it wasn't more than 1.5-2 hours, but it was plenty time to get at least a taste of what its graphics engine had to offer.

And when I look at pictures like these:






I'm reminded of N64. Low poly-count, low detail. Maybe they were playing it on a crappy computer, but 2-2.5 years ago they should've at least had a 7800GTX they were testing it out with, which should make a game look a heck of a lot better than that.

Can any of you post some screens of it on your high-end rigs? I'm trying to keep an open mind here. The more MMOs out there I can play, the better.

And in response to Ninjaman, I don't think I ever said anywhere that graphics alone make a good game. I just mentioned that it's a major part of the experience, especially when you're playing MMOs because you're playing it for so many hours straight. And games with poor graphics just do not draw you in as much as games with good graphics.

And I don't get Ninjaman's "generic" comment about Vanguard's graphics either. I think the artwork and graphics are both some of the best I've seen. What is so "generic"-looking about this?
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Old 03-14-07, 11:57 AM   #82
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

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Originally Posted by UDawg
I find it funny that all the Vanguarians get upset when you talk about Vanguard but the WoW player just laugh when you talk about WoW.
Meh, you'd be surprised. Frankly I could care less what people say about vanguard. I am fully aware of its bugs and problems. Just as I am fully aware of WoW's problems.

And yes I have played WoW. Its not a bad game. I never said it was. Its just not my type of game. Just like Vanguard isn't yours.
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Old 03-14-07, 12:02 PM   #83
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I honestly don't think WoW looks that bad. It plays very very well on low end machines and still looks ok. I absolutely love the bright colors in WoW. It has a great since of art whether you like the game or not.

Obviously Vanguard looks better because it is a brand new game. The only thing that bugs me is how people can say that Vanguard has "no art direction and is bland". Vanguard isn't EQ2. Vanguard has a much better sense of art now. Hell, even since beta alot of the art has improved. They pretty much changed EVERYTHING. Vanguard's art is actually rather good. Not as colorful as WoW, but its not meant to be. Just like WoW isn't meant to have state of the art graphics.



I try to keep my opinions as unbiased as possible. I have played both games and think they both have their strengths/weakness's. There is no "better game". There is just a "better game for you". For me that just happens to be Vanguard.
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Old 03-14-07, 12:16 PM   #84
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Default Re: Double Experience Weekend on Vanguard... Again

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Meh, you'd be surprised. Frankly I could care less what people say about vanguard.
I really don't care that much, either. It's just that when someone brings up a complaint about it lately, the reason they give for not liking it has nothing to do with what it actually offers. It's like they're searching for anything they can find not to like it because they're still hung up on Everquest or WoW.

It's "one-dimensional," for example. It's "generic" looking.

Look at that screenshot. There's nothing "generic" or fake looking about it. It looks like a real freaking forest. The grass looks real. The mountains look real. The trees look real. The water looks real. And the volumetric clouds, an effect that no other game to this point has used, look so freaking real that you can almost reach out and touch them. They have a 3-D mass to them as they move across the sky.

And the game has many different paths that you can take. Grinding, harvesting, crafting, diplomacy. And both harvesting and crafting have many sub-level occupations under those. Artificing, Blacksmithing, Outfitting, Reaping, Mining, Skinning, etc. Therefore, it's not one-dimensional. Far from it.

There are plenty of reasons not to like Vanguard. The game is buggy as hell. It lags--especially with multiple friendlies on screen. It chunks too much. It's not optimized that well. Those are just a few. I'm just amused by some of the reasons people actually come up with for not liking it, because they usually don't relate to the game at all.
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