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Old 05-14-07, 05:02 AM   #85
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Default Re: More AMD Awesomness (Barcelona & R600)

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Originally Posted by Amuro
No, you're the one who's wrong.
We will see when Fusion is out, no more restraints from add-on expansion slots.
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Old 05-14-07, 05:17 AM   #86
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Default Re: More AMD Awesomness (Barcelona & R600)

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Originally Posted by DMx
We will see when Fusion is out, no more restraints from add-on expansion slots.
Fusion is IIRC not meant to at first repalce discreet desktop GPUs....just a way of cutting cost etc on the right lithography...a test bed for future integration of high end ...possibly
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Old 05-14-07, 05:27 AM   #87
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Default Re: More AMD Awesomness (Barcelona & R600)

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Originally Posted by DMx
No, you obviously know nothing of CPU-GPU integration. There will be a dedicated GPU core on-board/on-die next to the CPU, removing the restrictions of FSB/PCI-E limitations, etc. Instantaneous CPU-GPU communication.
I'm well aware of that dude- but what you fail to understand is there is a massive lack of real-estate available on die.

Just look at how many transistors both the G80 and R600 have. Now, even a die shrink alone will not make it realistic enough to stuff next to a coupld CPU cores. First of all the heat generated by a high end GPU that is integrated with the CPU would put temps up with the Prescotts. Secondly, what about the framebuffer? Would it utilize system RAM? It'd have to cause you sure can't cram 512MB+ on-die. Then there is the issue of SLi and CrossFire- will that be integrated as well? If so, what about the framebuffer for both GPUs? Integrated? Just how much space do you think is available on the die? Okay, so maybe the framebuffer wont be integrated. It'd have to be the system RAM. Now that'd be a step backwards as system RAM is slower than the RAM used as the framebuffer for today's current cards. Heck, even by the time we're using DDR3 in our rigs they'll be putting out video cards with GDDR4. Sure, the integrated memory controller will cut back on latencies in regards to the integrated GPU communicating with the system RAM- but that doesn't solve the issue of the system RAM being slower than the current RAM used as the framebuffer. Furthermore- just how much RAM would we need to use for the system to run smoothly? Cause as is you need atleast 2GB + the Framebuffer if you aim to game at high resolutions with lots of AA/AF. Do you think integrating the GPU onto the CPU die will illiminate this? I could continue listing the problems with putting a high-end GPU on the CPU-die, but I think you get my point.

And believe me, I've researched this topic to the point of exhaustion cause I really like the idea of the GPU being on the same die as the CPU. But right now we are far from having a high-end GPU on the CPU die. Not gonna' happen any time super soon. Sorry.
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Old 05-14-07, 05:29 AM   #88
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Default Re: More AMD Awesomness (Barcelona & R600)

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Originally Posted by DMx
We will see when Fusion is out, no more restraints from add-on expansion slots.
Restraints? What are you smoking? We can't even saturate the bandwidth available with PCI-e x16- even when utilizing SLi. I just think you're overly hyped about a technology that could be something significant to gamers some time down the road but is nothing important to us now. But keep watching though, I'm quite confident myself that something very impressive will come of it... eventually.
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Old 05-14-07, 08:18 AM   #89
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Default Re: More AMD Awesomness (Barcelona & R600)

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I rather keep the GPU discrete and specialized as specialized hardware tens to have the most performance, and the support is there already
On performance- that depends. Dedicated graphics controllers have insane amounts of bandwidth at their disposal, which certainly helps. But an on-die graphics chip will be able to communicate with the CPU with extremely high bandwidth and without having to go out over the FSB. Adding a next-generation graphics core to the CPU could provide a massive improvement in floating point power for some types of applications. Even if the chip doesn't do your rasterizing, there's still great applications for it.
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Old 05-14-07, 10:05 AM   #90
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Default Re: More AMD Awesomness (Barcelona & R600)

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Originally Posted by a12ctic
Just because you have a grudge doesn't mean AMD wont dominate for another 3+ years.
No grudge here. I'm just sick of you and your little fanboi friends bragging about things that have yet to happen. AMD might come out with a good product, they might not. You on the other hand act as if a curse for AMD/ATI.

You told us all that AM2 would crush C2D. AM2 was a joke.

You told us all that R600 would revolutionize PC gaming. Nvidia wouldn't be able to catch up for years. R600 is clearly a flop



My advice to you is to just shut your mouth. Everything you say will happen always seems to cause the exact opposite to actually happen. For the good of your fanboism, it might be good for you to start saying the new AMD chip will suck.
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Old 05-14-07, 10:10 AM   #91
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Default Re: More AMD Awesomness (Barcelona & R600)

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Originally Posted by DMx
There will be a dedicated GPU core on-board/on-die next to the CPU, removing the restrictions of FSB/PCI-E limitations, etc. Instantaneous CPU-GPU communication.
Funny how AMD/ATI fanboi's always have the come back "There will be", while Nvidia/Intel always has the comeback "There is"

I've been hearing about this "CPU-GPU" integrated crap for years now. If you want my opinion, It will NEVER happen for high end products. If anything, this integrated CPU-GPU will be for low end machines.
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Old 05-14-07, 01:45 PM   #92
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Default Re: More AMD Awesomness (Barcelona & R600)

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Originally Posted by Tygerwoody
Funny how AMD/ATI fanboi's always have the come back "There will be", while Nvidia/Intel always has the comeback "There is"

I've been hearing about this "CPU-GPU" integrated crap for years now. If you want my opinion, It will NEVER happen for high end products. If anything, this integrated CPU-GPU will be for low end machines.
Jesus christ you're an idiot. I recommended a Core 2 Duo in a thread earlier, If I were a fanboy would I not be standing beside Athlon? Idiot.

Besides, you just went a little fanboyish then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tygerwoody
Funny how AMD/ATI fanboi's always have the come back "There will be", while Nvidia/Intel always has the comeback "There is"
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Old 05-14-07, 02:45 PM   #93
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Default Re: More AMD Awesomness (Barcelona & R600)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tygerwoody
Funny how AMD/ATI fanboi's always have the come back "There will be", while Nvidia/Intel always has the comeback "There is"

I've been hearing about this "CPU-GPU" integrated crap for years now. If you want my opinion, It will NEVER happen for high end products. If anything, this integrated CPU-GPU will be for low end machines.
Quite true- atleast for the first couple generations of the integrated CPU+GPU. I'm sure eventually we'll see high end GPUs paired with the CPU- but that is a ways off.
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Old 05-14-07, 02:47 PM   #94
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Default Re: More AMD Awesomness (Barcelona & R600)

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Originally Posted by DMx
Jesus christ you're an idiot. I recommended a Core 2 Duo in a thread earlier, If I were a fanboy would I not be standing beside Athlon? Idiot.

Besides, you just went a little fanboyish then
You still have to explain how they are going to get a high end GPU integrated on die with all these problems:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemed
I'm well aware of that dude- but what you fail to understand is there is a massive lack of real-estate available on die.

Just look at how many transistors both the G80 and R600 have. Now, even a die shrink alone will not make it realistic enough to stuff next to a coupld CPU cores. First of all the heat generated by a high end GPU that is integrated with the CPU would put temps up with the Prescotts. Secondly, what about the framebuffer? Would it utilize system RAM? It'd have to cause you sure can't cram 512MB+ on-die. Then there is the issue of SLi and CrossFire- will that be integrated as well? If so, what about the framebuffer for both GPUs? Integrated? Just how much space do you think is available on the die? Okay, so maybe the framebuffer wont be integrated. It'd have to be the system RAM. Now that'd be a step backwards as system RAM is slower than the RAM used as the framebuffer for today's current cards. Heck, even by the time we're using DDR3 in our rigs they'll be putting out video cards with GDDR4. Sure, the integrated memory controller will cut back on latencies in regards to the integrated GPU communicating with the system RAM- but that doesn't solve the issue of the system RAM being slower than the current RAM used as the framebuffer. Furthermore- just how much RAM would we need to use for the system to run smoothly? Cause as is you need atleast 2GB + the Framebuffer if you aim to game at high resolutions with lots of AA/AF. Do you think integrating the GPU onto the CPU die will illiminate this? I could continue listing the problems with putting a high-end GPU on the CPU-die, but I think you get my point.

And believe me, I've researched this topic to the point of exhaustion cause I really like the idea of the GPU being on the same die as the CPU. But right now we are far from having a high-end GPU on the CPU die. Not gonna' happen any time super soon. Sorry.
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Old 05-14-07, 03:59 PM   #95
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Default Re: More AMD Awesomness (Barcelona & R600)

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Originally Posted by Tygerwoody
Funny how AMD/ATI fanboi's always have the come back "There will be", while Nvidia/Intel always has the comeback "There is"

I've been hearing about this "CPU-GPU" integrated crap for years now. If you want my opinion, It will NEVER happen for high end products. If anything, this integrated CPU-GPU will be for low end machines.
Up until Core2 it was quite the opposite. And I find it amusing how you seem so convinced AMD is done and defeated. Do you really prefer Intel to have a Monopoly over AMD doing thier best to compete?
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Old 05-14-07, 04:41 PM   #96
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Default Re: More AMD Awesomness (Barcelona & R600)

Really, IMO I think this will all come down to which company you want to support and what is your reasoning behind buying a CPU. Intel may very well still beat AMD when it comes to the highest benchmark scores for gamers, but if both companies have processors out there that allow for a min framerate of 40fps or higher in real-time gaming(which is what i'm hoping for) it should come down to a price war.

HT 3.0 should allow for some pretty interesting stuff...did I read that chart right?? 4200Mhz bus speed?? WTF kinda memory is that gonna use lmao. The 45nm parts is where the real action is likely to be, should be some sweet OC'ing there.

I also find it funny how soooooo many people just not that long ago totally bashed Intel for not keeping up with the AMD64's, I also seem to remember an awful lot of people not believing the Conroe's were going to totally stomp an FX-60. Seems to me, the idea that AMD could be coming out with another killer cpu (emphasis on the "another") is quite possible and I'm looking forward to seeing real world results
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