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Old 05-20-07, 10:24 AM   #1
cement_head
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Default SUSPEND works; HIBERNATE will not poweroff

Hello,

Dell laptop Inspiron 8100, nVIDIA GeForceGo2 16 MB; 9631-1.0 drivers, Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) using kernel 2.6.20-15-generic.

SUSPEND (to RAM) works flawlessly.

HIBERNATE (to DISK) seems to almost work and then at the last step when the machine should poweroff, it doesn't - just hangs, requires holding powerbutton to kill the power. Restarted machine boots as if no hibernation took place.

Using the XORG "nv" driver, both SUSPEND and HIBERNATE works flawlessly from X.

Is there a tweak that I am missing to be able to use the 9631-1.0 drivers during my HIBERNATE cycle?

Thanks,
CH

Last edited by cement_head; 05-22-07 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 05-20-07, 08:13 PM   #2
m-singh
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Default Re: SUSPEND works; HIBERNATE will not poweroff

Quote:
Originally Posted by cement_head
Hello,

Dell laptop Inspiron 8100, nVIDIA GeForceGo2 16 MB; 9631-1.0 drivers, Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) using kernel 2.6.20-15-generic.

SUSPEND (to RAM) works flawlessly.

HIBERNATE (to DISK) seems to almost work and then at the last step when the machine should poweroff, it doesn't just hangs, requires holding powerbutton to kill the power. Restarted machine boots as if no hibernation took place.

Using the XORG "nv" driver, both SUSPEND and HIBERNATE works flawlessly from X.

Is there a tweak that I am missing to be able to use the 9631-1.0 drivers during my HIBERNATE cycle?

Thanks,
CH
I have precisely the same problem with 7400 GeForce Go card. I have tried driver versions 8776, 9755 and the latest beta version. I think that the hibernate script needs tweaking somewhere.

I have ProcSetting extra_pages_allowance 0 as well as echo 0 > /sys/power/suspend2/extra_pages_allowance in /etc/rc.local.

I have almost given up on ever getting suspend2 to work with nvidia cards. Maybe next time I will not buy a laptop with an nvidia card.
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Old 05-20-07, 10:12 PM   #3
cement_head
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Default Re: SUSPEND works; HIBERNATE will not poweroff

Well, I'm not using Suspend Software 2.

System76 laptops use nVIDIA cards and they can completely SUSPEND and HIBERNATE. The problem isn't the nVIDIA cards per se, it's the custom versions that laptop makers "fabricate" (i.e. DELL, HP, ACER, ASUS, etc). If they stuck to the nVIDIA specs, everything would work.

- CH
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Old 05-20-07, 10:49 PM   #4
m-singh
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Default Re: SUSPEND works; HIBERNATE will not poweroff

Quote:
Originally Posted by cement_head
Well, I'm not using Suspend Software 2.

System76 laptops use nVIDIA cards and they can completely SUSPEND and HIBERNATE. The problem isn't the nVIDIA cards per se, it's the custom versions that laptop makers "fabricate" (i.e. DELL, HP, ACER, ASUS, etc). If they stuck to the nVIDIA specs, everything would work.

- CH
I thought that an nvidia card was an nvidia card, whether it was in a Dell D820 (like I have) or anywhere else.

It certainly helps to purchase a system from System 76, which sells linux systems, but they tend to be more expensive because they are a smaller vendor.

I think I will stick to Intel cards on my future laptops. Laptops do not really need graphical acceleration, and hibernate is absolutely essential. I have never had problems hibernating laptops with Intel cards.
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Old 05-20-07, 11:58 PM   #5
asdfasdfa
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Default Re: SUSPEND works; HIBERNATE will not poweroff

This might have nothing to do with the nvidia binary driver. One way you could easily find out if the problem is with the hibernate script used by your distro you could try hibernating to disk without the graphical environment (Xorg) running. Ensure that the nvidia driver is not loaded (modprobe -r nvidia), then attempt to hibernate (powersave -U) if your using powersave (you don't need to be root).

Sometimes if you don't enable image compression when hibernating to disk you could have this issue.
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Old 05-21-07, 02:53 AM   #6
m-singh
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Default Re: SUSPEND works; HIBERNATE will not poweroff

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfasdfa
This might have nothing to do with the nvidia binary driver. One way you could easily find out if the problem is with the hibernate script used by your distro you could try hibernating to disk without the graphical environment (Xorg) running. Ensure that the nvidia driver is not loaded (modprobe -r nvidia), then attempt to hibernate (powersave -U) if your using powersave (you don't need to be root).

Sometimes if you don't enable image compression when hibernating to disk you could have this issue.
I have tried this with the open source nv driver, and suspend to disk works flawlessly (except that I sometimes end up without a mouse cursor). The text mode hibernate works PERFECTLY. Even from the graphical environment, with binary nvidia drivers loaded, suspend to ram (S3) works (the USB controllers are dead upon resume, but at least the thing works).

However, hibernate does not work with the same settings. Let me correct that - it has worked precisely ONCE (out of about 100 attempts) and it did not hibernate again on resume. With the settings unchanged, it never worked again. Since then, I have had no luck whatsoever.

I have compression enabled (I use lzf compression with suspend2). This is most definitely not a hibernate script issue (if it were, it would not work with the nv driver).

Its simply inescapable that it is a nvidia binary driver issue that nvidia developers either are incapable of fixing or do not care enough to fix. Either way, this experience is enough to teach me never to get nvidia cards in my future laptops. If its any consolation to those stuck with nvidia cards (like me), ATI support is probably worse.

If only the drivers were open source, the fundamental problem would have been identified and fixed ages ago. I have had so many try this, try that opaque suggestions without any logical reasoning over the past few months, that I am sick of it.

I like nvidia cards - make perfect sense for desktop machines. I guess I got suckered into purchasing a laptop with an NVIDIA PCI-E card. Paid extra for the graphical acceleration and dedicated graphical memory, and I end up getting such a critical function like hibernate borked.

I could have saved myself much time, money and heart burn by not buying nvidia.
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Old 05-21-07, 04:28 AM   #7
gbil
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Default Re: SUSPEND works; HIBERNATE will not poweroff

Quote:
Originally Posted by m-singh
I have tried this with the open source nv driver, and suspend to disk works flawlessly (except that I sometimes end up without a mouse cursor). The text mode hibernate works PERFECTLY. Even from the graphical environment, with binary nvidia drivers loaded, suspend to ram (S3) works (the USB controllers are dead upon resume, but at least the thing works).

However, hibernate does not work with the same settings. Let me correct that - it has worked precisely ONCE (out of about 100 attempts) and it did not hibernate again on resume. With the settings unchanged, it never worked again. Since then, I have had no luck whatsoever.

I have compression enabled (I use lzf compression with suspend2). This is most definitely not a hibernate script issue (if it were, it would not work with the nv driver).

Its simply inescapable that it is a nvidia binary driver issue that nvidia developers either are incapable of fixing or do not care enough to fix. Either way, this experience is enough to teach me never to get nvidia cards in my future laptops. If its any consolation to those stuck with nvidia cards (like me), ATI support is probably worse.

If only the drivers were open source, the fundamental problem would have been identified and fixed ages ago. I have had so many try this, try that opaque suggestions without any logical reasoning over the past few months, that I am sick of it.

I like nvidia cards - make perfect sense for desktop machines. I guess I got suckered into purchasing a laptop with an NVIDIA PCI-E card. Paid extra for the graphical acceleration and dedicated graphical memory, and I end up getting such a critical function like hibernate borked.

I could have saved myself much time, money and heart burn by not buying nvidia.
I have a desktop system with core 2 duo + 8800gts and both suspend to ram and disk work fine using the kernel suspend system and not suspend2 .

Have you ever thought that the problem might be elsewhere? And pls pls pls stop whining!
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Old 05-21-07, 07:49 AM   #8
cement_head
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Default Re: SUSPEND works; HIBERNATE will not poweroff

Hi,

System76 aren't really more expensive if you consider that they just work. They use unaltered nVIDIA cards/chipsets. I need OpenGL on my laptop for graphics rendering (molecular modelling) so I appreciate the linux binary drivers.

The DELL specific problem also may be from corrupt DSDT tables. Essentially, DELL writes very poor BIOS code (notorious for this) but this is never an issue, because Micro$oft handles everything (SUSPEND, HIBERNATE & PowerManagement) at the software level. Smaller companies like System76, or manufacturers who are pro-LINIX make sure they write a properly functioning BIOS and that all there hardware is ACPI complaint.

If your machine is modern (D820) you should be able to get everything working. What LINUX distro are you using?

I noticed that there is now a FEISTY FAWN patch for Suspend2, so if you're running Ubuntu that should make things easier.

- CH
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Old 05-21-07, 01:41 PM   #9
m-singh
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Default Re: SUSPEND works; HIBERNATE will not poweroff

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbil
I have a desktop system with core 2 duo + 8800gts and both suspend to ram and disk work fine using the kernel suspend system and not suspend2 .

Have you ever thought that the problem might be elsewhere? And pls pls pls stop whining!
You are lucky. swsusp is the only thing I have not tried yet.

The problem might be where, might one ask ?

ACPI S4 suspend does not work with nvidia's binary modules (tried many kinds of settings).
It does work with the open source nv driver.

Suspend2 hibernate does not work with nvidia's binary modules (tried many kinds of settings).
It does work with the open source nv driver.

Dare one suggest that there is a common thread in those two observations ?

No matter what I try, I have better luck hibernating (a success ratio of close to 100% with nv compared to close to 0% with nvidia binary drivers) with the open source non-binary modules.

The only reason I am stuck with using nvidia's binary drivers is that the open source nv driver sucks big time in acceleration because the specs for the chipset are not public. Nvidia has a perfect right to determine what it will release under open source or even in public specs, and what it won't. It is their intellectual property.

However, to label a legitimate customer complaint as whining does not hide the fact that such choices have commercial consequences. Mine is hardly an isolated case - just google with the appropriate keywords and find out how many people have a working ACPI sleep (S3) with a system that will not power off upon hibernate, regardless of whether they use ACPI suspend (S4) or suspend2. This in spite of the fact that NVIDIA's readme claims that it supports S4.

And then there are reports that some people have had luck with one version of the driver, only for that luck to disappear when upgrading. Its not a stretch to say that nvidia is alienating a lot of Linux laptop customers by putting out shoddy drivers (yes, yes, I know ATI is worse, but Intel is better in this respect). I could care less about whether the software I used on my laptop was open source or closed source - but the darned thing has to work.

Whether NVIDIA arranges that by releasing closed source drivers that work or by releasing the specs so that the open source driver nv can support 3D acceleration etc. in a few months' time is NVIDIA's choice. But to deny the customers either choice and to expect them to keep buying NVIDIA hardware is the height of arrogance.

Your post has given me some hope and I will try the swsusp tonight with some trepidation (after doing a backup of course). Almost 2 years ago, swsusp screwed up my filesystem on another laptop, and that is when I gave that POS a toss and moved to suspend2, which has served me flawlessly on two different laptops for two years until I made the mistake of buying nvidia.
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Old 05-21-07, 01:53 PM   #10
m-singh
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Default Re: SUSPEND works; HIBERNATE will not poweroff

Quote:
Originally Posted by cement_head
Hi,

System76 aren't really more expensive if you consider that they just work. They use unaltered nVIDIA cards/chipsets. I need OpenGL on my laptop for graphics rendering (molecular modelling) so I appreciate the linux binary drivers.

The DELL specific problem also may be from corrupt DSDT tables. Essentially, DELL writes very poor BIOS code (notorious for this) but this is never an issue, because Micro$oft handles everything (SUSPEND, HIBERNATE & PowerManagement) at the software level. Smaller companies like System76, or manufacturers who are pro-LINIX make sure they write a properly functioning BIOS and that all there hardware is ACPI complaint.

If your machine is modern (D820) you should be able to get everything working. What LINUX distro are you using?

I noticed that there is now a FEISTY FAWN patch for Suspend2, so if you're running Ubuntu that should make things easier.

- CH
Thanks for your response. My laptop is quite modern. Its about 6 months old. I purchased it a few weeks after it was released.

I use Debian Testing (Lenny). I am an experienced Linux user (have been using it for close to 10 years), and the distro shuffle that you are recommending does not really enthuse me. Either a piece of hardware works for all distros or it does not for any of them. I have no horror of editing configuration files - and trying the same settings as they recommend on various websites for Ubuntu has not fixed the problem.

A few links have suggested that I extract the kernel interface of the NVIDIA driver, edit a few lines and compile. However, the reported results are mixed in the followups to the same links. So, I have tended to discount that more extreme option - hoping perhaps naively, that if the problem was so easily fixed, NVIDIA's developers would seize on it and fix it in a newer version. That has not happened either.

Further, in my search for a solution, I tended to find a lot of Ubuntu users (a reflection of the large market share that Ubuntu enjoys) who had precisely the same problem as I do.

Unless drivers actually get fixed, merely changing distros is an amusing, but serious waste of time.

What you state about Dell writing bad DSDT tables makes a lot more sense. To cover that possibility, I have tried three different BIOS versions - A03, A05 and A06 (currently being used - it is the latest). If that were really true however, I should have had problems hibernating with the open source nv drivers as well. I did not - they worked like a charm.

So, I would tend to discount Dell as the cause of my troubles in this instance. To lend credence to that view, I have found problem reports uncannily similar to mine from people using Sony's, or HP's and a few other brands.

I am however, a little confused - does Dell modify NVIDIA's chipsets ? I thought that a 7400 was a 7400 no matter which laptop you bought.
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Old 05-21-07, 03:14 PM   #11
cement_head
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Default Re: SUSPEND works; HIBERNATE will not poweroff

hmmm

well, I was told that DSDT tables were the problem with machines that were at the transition time period of APM to ACPI. Could be bogus.

DEBIAN should be the best, from what I've read in posts on the web about hibernating. S2 is a little too much for me to get involved with, but it would be great if someone was to build some debs for it (patched kernels, etc).

I've read on a number of forum sites that the major manufacturers have "speciality" versions of the nVIDIA chipsets made for them, to their specs. If they themselves don't check that all the hardware interfaces properly (again, not a concern in windows) then it is almost impossible to fix.

The poweroff issue is a weird one.
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Old 05-22-07, 09:28 AM   #12
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Default Re: SUSPEND works; HIBERNATE will not poweroff

this is the fifth thread about this issue (which I suffer from too)...

to sum up (dell xps m1210+core2duo+go7400):
- text suspend works
- x+nv suspend works
- x+nvidia fails badly (kpanic?) at 'finding driver allowance'. screen goes black and never comes on again.
- on highly similar hardware (asus w7j+coreduo+go7400), x+nvidia works: screen goes off at 'finding driver allowance' then immediately back on.

note: 'finding driver allowance' might not be the right text depending on suspend2 version, and is not present at all in swsusp, but you will observe the exact same behavior.
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