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View Poll Results: Are you satisfied with nvidia linux support?
Yes 55 56.12%
No 43 43.88%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-30-07, 06:26 PM   #13
Eliminator
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Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

im not satisfied with xp support let alone linux
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Old 05-30-07, 07:09 PM   #14
cestuila
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Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

Satisfied.....good job.
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Old 05-30-07, 09:58 PM   #15
wschutzer
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Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

Quote:
Originally Posted by kriko
netllama gave me this idea, so I'm opening this thread to discuss opinions on nvidia.

What is bothering me is the almost "fully" closed development of new drivers. You don't know which bugs are going to be fixed in future release, when are they going to be fixed or if they are assigned to be fixed at all.
So I'm proposing an open bug-tracking system, where customers would report bugs, see their priority and progress.
Kriko,

I am glad that you have had the initiative. However, it is good to give credit where it is due. Proposing an open bug-tracking system was one the main issues macemoneta raised in his post at the beginning of that thread. It was implicit but we can infer that fairly easily. Otherwise he would probably not have said so.

Bringing back that issue in my post is likely to have been the cause of that popular thread being closed since, according to Lonni, it obviously veered way off topic lately. Now, had it not wandered off topic before? Why is it so unnatural that in such a long discussion about an old and persistent problem people begin to express their feelings about it? After all, we are only humans.

Closing it down so abruptly gave the impression that it had reached the absolute end of that discussion. However, there was no strong reason to believe that the next post would not have taken us back into the main subject. A simple reminder or a suggestion to opening a new thread could have been effective.

Coincidently, this was the second time a thread was closed right after I posted. At least this time the person who did it was kind enough to give a reason. Exercising what looked like authoritarianism against a customer, in the words of somebody else who wrote to me in support, is probably a recipe for dissatisfaction. What is nVidia trying to do?

Considering all this, I would like to say that I used to be fully satisfied with the way nVidia was responding to and interacting with the community. I was and I still am a loyal fan of their products. However, I have been growing increasingly weary lately about their taking so long to respond to prevalent issues and now due to the aforementioned incidents. I would say that I am certainly less than satisfied with nVidia.

I live in Brazil, where nVidia is very popular and so is Linux. Furthermore, Linux is the only OS that can still run reasonably well on old/low-end hardware many people down here can afford to buy. For us, open source drivers make perfect good sense and we want them. Besides, my household is completely Windows-free and 100% legal and I wish I could keep it just like this. I do not want to depend on a driver that, aside from the fact of it not working as expected, it can potentially bring up legal issues and cause me to loose support (most commercial drivers taint the kernel).

Last year, the Brazilian government has adopted a roadmap to adopt open source and open standards at all of its hierarchical levels. As a result, it is expected that Linux figures will grow steadily in the country. My employer, a public university, has recently asked me to organize a Linux workshop on campus and hold at least one Linux installfest session during the event which is to be open to all individuals. In my presentation, what kind of graphics card should I recommend? Probably the same kind of card I would recommend the other members of the University TI committee I am part of.

I wish nVidia would at least follow the lead (namely Intel and ATI/AMD*) in either open sourcing their video card drivers or releasing the hardware specifications so that community developers could work on their own. Last, but not least, Mandriva, the Mandrake-Conectiva merger, is a good example of what Brazilian and German software engineers are capable of in terms of complex software development**, not to mention the host of voluntary developers scattered all around the world.

Gosh, that was a long post.

Prof. Waldeck Schützer, Ph.D.
DM/UFSCar, Brazil

(*) Intel has open sourced their drivers last year and AMD has recently promised to open source theirs (cf. Google).

(**)
"customers aren't asking for open-source drivers" -- nVidia

"It's so hard to write a graphics driver that open-sourcing it would not help" -- Andrew Fear
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Old 05-31-07, 02:32 AM   #16
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Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

Not granulated enough choices IMHO. I am mostly satisfied, yet I look forward open source drivers.
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Old 05-31-07, 02:54 AM   #17
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Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

I too would love to see some open source drivers out, even starting with a basic implementation. Since the linux community cannot measure up to the windows one in term of user population, it is understandable we get slower support; yet we shouldn't have to use drivers that keep on carrying the same bugs (suspend freeze, black windows in beryl etc...) for months. I don't know how much of a risk it represents for a hardware company to open its drivers, but if some other companies are ready to take it, why couldn't nV do the same ?
As a user, I will just keep on going for the hardware that works best with the sofwares I use. For now it's nV, I just wish it stays that way.
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Old 05-31-07, 04:37 AM   #18
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Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

I don't care if drivers are opensourced or not as long as they're working fine. Nvidia driver works fine, it's fast, reliable and works with suspend-to-disk for me. I don't have any problems with installation it just works. I have been using Linux (Debian) for 6 years as my primary and only desktop. I had ATI and Nvidia cards and clearly there are no competition to Nvidia right now.

The answer is simple, I am satisfied.
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Old 05-31-07, 06:35 AM   #19
meskalamdug
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Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

Totally satisfaction
drivers updated,stable
and good support,3d is really
ok,suspend works
Only few request
1)Please..open source drivers!
2)Fix bugs with compiz
and nvidia is ok 100%!
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Old 05-31-07, 07:23 AM   #20
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Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

I must say I really dislike non-free stuff, especially stuff that touches my kernel. However Nvidia's drivers are atleast functional and right now there's no real alternative for gnu/linux users since Intel has no pci/agp/pci-e cards to offer.

However, its the small things that rubs me the wrong way. The lack of verbosity in the changelog is just one thing. Nvidia could really earn a lot of points, at least in my book, by being more transparent with it's bugs.

When a gfx-card with tvout & 3d capabilities with FREE drivers hits the market i'll be sure to never buy a card with non-free drivers ever again. AMD made some encouraging comments regarding free/open ati-drivers a while back. Let's hope it's not just talk.
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Old 05-31-07, 09:29 AM   #21
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Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

Quote:
Originally Posted by wschutzer
Gosh, that was a long post.

Prof. Waldeck Schützer, Ph.D.
DM/UFSCar, Brazil
Yes it was; but a well written post is never too long for me.

I voted "yes". Not an ecstatic "yes", to be sure, but still a "yes".

Considering the overall complexity in this ever-changing Windows/Linux world it sometimes amazes me that the darn cards work at all.

We tend to see all the issues as purely technical. Nvidia (and AMD/ATI) are profit-oriented companies in a capitalistic world. No doubt some of the "bugs" that we see as technical issues are really commercial issues related to a profitable dependence on the Windows community (still hugely dominant) as well as positioning toward the future and keeping their legal act clean. Only the growth of Linux such that it becomes a more powerful market segment is going to change that, here as well as with modems, wireless, codecs, etc.

A key frustration seems to be that Linux folks innately are more technically oriented yet available information is limited to the marketing hype (muchos BS) and here ("just the facts please"). We tend to want to know more of the in-between stuff. Fact is, the forum staffers probably don't know that much more either about "where it's all going" or what's gonna get fixed next and when. Even if they do know, management decisions are likely change all that in a heartbeat.

As to closing a thread: Yes, poor form for a forum but that thread really had nowhere to productively go. It would be nice if NV would post a sticky on issues like these, state its position, and update it as the situation changes. Sometimes just being "up front" about some things might be less damaging.

Rick, Ph.D. not
(but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night! )
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Old 05-31-07, 11:47 AM   #22
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Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

In my opinion, open-sourcing the drivers is probably not going to fix any problems real soon. Look at the state of other large-and-complex open source projects, e.g. Mozilla or OpenOffice. They have open bugs that have remained open for a decade, even when they would seem to be easy to fix. It takes quite some effort to examine the structure of the sourcecode for such a large project, find the thing to fix, and then convince the maintainers to include a fix in the next release (without that, fixing does not really bring much).

An open bug-tracking system is a good thing to have, even for a closed-source project. It saves a lot of time debugging something that is already a known bug.

One last thing: I find it disturbing that on this forum threads have been closed and users banned for no really apparent reason. Moderators may feel that discussions are off-topic, but closing threads and banning users for that is not very effective and blocks useful discussion as well. Editing the posts (replacing unwanted posts with an indication that something has been removed) gets the message through and keeps the forum usable for others.
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Old 05-31-07, 05:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

I too haven't decided whether I'm satisfied or not with nvidia's driver model. When I had my ti4200, everything "just worked" with the nvidia driver. My experience with older nvidia cards has been just as positive. With my new motherboard (Biostar TF 7050-M2), however, the onboard 7050PV graphics are not supported in even the latest beta driver. They might be supported "later this summer", but until then I'm stuck using the vesa driver.

However, I think open-sourcing the current driver wouldn't be very practical, as one of the reasons for long-standing bugs in OpenOffice and Firefox is the huge codebase that was inherited by the current maintainers. I'd love it if nvidia saw fit to release enough of the hardware specs so that a clean open-source driver could be written. I know the Nouveau folks are working at getting this information "the hard way", but it would be a lot easier and faster if the specs were available from the source. I don't see why any company wouldn't want to release data that would make their hardware work better for users on any OS. Hopefully either forward-thinkers at nvidia or pressure from competitors open-sourcing their codebases can make this happen.

Ken
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Old 05-31-07, 07:21 PM   #24
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Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

The poll is too binary for me. At this point in time, I'm "somewhat satisfied".

I tend to agree with Ken that simply open-sourcing the drivers is likely not a cure-all.

I agree that providing the hardware specs and whatever else is necessary for a driver developer to implement drivers for their GPUs would be a good thing. After all, they aren't charging for the Linux driver anyway.

I certainly wish that from a user perspective, display configuration was as easy and straightforward on GNU/Linux (of whatever flavor) as on MacOS or Windows. This of course requires cooperation between the X.org / Xfree folks and the GPU manufacturers and driver implementors. But one can hope.

I recently moved my work/personal environment from Windows to Ubuntu, and it has largely gone fairly easy except for the @!#$% display stuff. I still don't have hot-plugging of external monitors working, and that is necessary in my biz (protocol specification & standards development) as I go to lots of meetings and give presos and such. Luckily I have some time still before my next meeting.

AND I do all my own sysad for my own lapstation and not having stuff work out of the box costs time from my day job and I can't consume an unlimited amount of said cycles.

I really wish manufacturers such as nVidia would bite the bullet and invest more fully in Linux support. It's a chicken& egg problem -- if they did, it'd help in having a wider breadth of folks be able to use it as opposed to the current market leader. Right now, with simply the external monitor thing not working out of the box, there's a bunch of folks I can't encourage to migrate (even tho many of them are looking askance at Vista, and realize XP et al won't be supported forever).

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