Go Back   nV News Forums > Linux Support Forums > NVIDIA Linux

Newegg Daily Deals

View Poll Results: Are you satisfied with nvidia linux support?
Yes 55 56.12%
No 43 43.88%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-31-07, 07:24 PM   #25
wschutzer
Registered User
 
wschutzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sao Carlos, Brazil
Posts: 55
Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

Quote:
Originally Posted by pe1chl
In my opinion, open-sourcing the drivers is probably not going to fix any problems real soon. Look at the state of other large-and-complex open source projects, e.g. Mozilla or OpenOffice. They have open bugs that have remained open for a decade, even when they would seem to be easy to fix.
Hi pe1chl,

Your comparison is simply not fair. Mozilla and OpenOffice are large-scale projects whose size and complexity dwarf that of a video graphics driver. You could convince yourself of this if only you tried to download and compile any of the two on your own. I am an experienced Linux user and I can compile Mozilla, but I cannot even manage compile OpenOffice myself, due to limitations of my computer and of myself.

On the contrary of what you state, we can look at these incredible pieces of software as beautiful testimonies of what open source can accomplish. Because of them, many people nowadays can browse the net freely. They can edit texts, make presentations and do complex calculations for free and stay 100% legal. Due to their ubiquity though, it is not hard to take for granted their real value.

Yes, these softwares might have bugs that remained unsolved for almost a decade, but you know this only because their respective projects have open bug-tracking systems. This is one big advantage of open source projects. Anyone can obtain information about what is being done or not, and everyone can contribute to the benefit of all.

All software have bugs. This is a mathematical certainty. However, Mozilla and OpenOffice are quite usable, stable and reliable, and their support is great. This is certainly not the case with nVidia drivers.
__________________
Prof. Waldeck Schützer, Ph.D.
DM/UFSCar, Brazil
wschutzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-07, 09:16 PM   #26
gfxdrone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 74
Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

It's actually not even necessary to point to OOo or Mozilla when discussing Open drivers, currently the ATI Fglrx stuff either doesn't work or barely works on many user machines. And what did work for the last months? The free, xorg ati/radeon drivers. That's what runs, and has run for years now, some of my boxes, and I can promise you those drivers are massively less headache than the ATI garbage is. And if you want to run Beryl composite stuff, forget the non free ATI junk, you need to use xorg free ati/radeon drivers.

So the idea that free drivers can't work is pretty hard to demonstrate, even with closed hardware specs, people are getting them running. Imagine what they could do with open specs! The idea that free drivers can't compete just isn't holding up at all. And that's with huge handicaps like having to reverse engineer everything.

Anyway, whether or not nVidia will see the light on this particular question would certainly help me decide whether or not I want to select the satisfied option, the binary method just isn't at all convincing to me at the moment.

Hopefully as free software gets more prevalent in the world, this kind of discussion will stop being necessary, since non free binaries have no place long term in the kernel, they can't even run on today's advanced configurations.
gfxdrone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-07, 10:26 PM   #27
linux23dragon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 26
Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

I'm happy with the driver support, but I think Nvidia should get more developers working on it. The Linux Driver demand is a lot stronger now.


PS: OpenOffice is stable, but it takes over 6 hours to compile (from 200MB source). And it is very hard to install too. You will find yourself patchng it.

Like this fix for the -mcpu option:-
sed -i '/^ARCH_FLAGS\*=/d' solenv/inc/unx{lngi{4,5,6},fbsdi}.mk
linux23dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-07, 11:27 PM   #28
wschutzer
Registered User
 
wschutzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sao Carlos, Brazil
Posts: 55
Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

Quote:
Originally Posted by linux23dragon
ILike this fix for the -mcpu option:-
sed -i '/^ARCH_FLAGS\*=/d' solenv/inc/unx{lngi{4,5,6},fbsdi}.mk
Hey, thanks a lot! Perhaps this is just what I needed to give Oo a second chance.
__________________
Prof. Waldeck Schützer, Ph.D.
DM/UFSCar, Brazil
wschutzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-07, 11:33 PM   #29
Grogan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

I've been quite pleased with Nvidia's Linux graphics driver since I switched over to Nvidia a few years ago after getting so very tired of fighting with ATI cards under Linux. All boxen get Nvidia cards now. (even customers... on Windows)

I was leery at first, thinking the proprietary driver was going to hold me back on what kernel versions I could use, but so far every time the glue wouldn't compile for me I've come here and either found code snippets/patches or a beta that works. (currently using 100.14.06 on LInux 2.6.22-rc3 and everything is happy)

Yes, certainly I'd very much love to see the specs opened up, but I'm grateful to have good quality support in this form. Please keep it up.

Really, I could not be happier with my games in Linux. The same games certainly work as well or better than they did when I tried them in Windows. I play Sauerbraten, Doom3 (and mods), Quake 4, and UT2004 mostly.
Grogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-07, 11:33 PM   #30
linux23dragon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 26
Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

Quote:
Originally Posted by wschutzer
Hey, thanks a lot! Perhaps this is just what I needed to give Oo a second chance.

Oh, well if you still want to give it a try then I'll point you to the BLFS site.

http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs...penoffice.html

You will find the other fixes usefull as well
linux23dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-07, 11:16 AM   #31
wschutzer
Registered User
 
wschutzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sao Carlos, Brazil
Posts: 55
Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

Quote:
Originally Posted by linux23dragon
Oh, well if you still want to give it a try then I'll point you to the BLFS site.
Hehe, that's what I meant. I guess I'll have to admit that my ESL lessons were long forgotten. Thanks for the pointers.
__________________
Prof. Waldeck Schützer, Ph.D.
DM/UFSCar, Brazil
wschutzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-07, 12:10 PM   #32
jdeslip
Registered User
 
jdeslip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 87
Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

I would say I am borderline. The fact that black window bug has persisted for over a year really brings my opinion down. I *really* would like to see that fixed or at least see continual updates from the crew letting us know what the progress is, what needs to be done, why it so complex and when a fix is likely. I think my feelings toward nvidia are still generally positive, though.
jdeslip is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 06-03-07, 06:25 PM   #33
ZeroDivide
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 14
Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

For the most part, nvidia is doing a great job with their 3d drivers.

The thing that really drives me crazy, is the total lack of accelerated xrender support. And as far as I understand it, nvidia has no plans of ever doing anything about it. Its great that aiglx has been implemented, but how about accelerating some simple 2d operations that will actually make a huge difference to the speed of the linux desktop first!
ZeroDivide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-07, 11:24 AM   #34
=JeffH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

An example of why I remain at "somewhat satisfied"...

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1276825&postcount=3


=JeffH
=JeffH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-07, 12:44 PM   #35
LostinSpacetime
Registered User
 
LostinSpacetime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 53
Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

I think it's a difficult time for nVidia. At the moment they are not doing exactly a good work, or maybe it's good but few. I think they still have problems with their Vista drivers and put all effort in fixing them. One must only look at the release intervals in the past. Until December last year it was about 1 month and one could see that heavy work was in progress. I'm really grateful for the AIGLX support, but it seems like in the last 9 months the developers have "better" things to do.

Off course it would be more than great if nVidia would opensource their drivers. But one must understand that there's a war going on, mostly between nVidia and AMD/ATI and none of them would risk to give the "enemy" any information. I think it's really horrible, but I believe this is the reality of the managers working for these companies. I've heard about some guy telling that AMD/ATI want to open source their drivers, but its hardly for me to believe that this will happen. It would be a real revolution in my opinion, but such big companies do not care for revolutions.

Bottomline.. at the moment I'm (obviously) not satisfied with nVidia, but they have (by far) the better drivers so, as there's no alternative I'll keep using and recommending their products. Off course, if I would buy a laptop, it would be definitely one with an Intel card.

Greetings to everybody!!
LostinSpacetime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-07, 03:53 PM   #36
gmp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32
Default Re: Satisfaction / dissatisfaction with nvidia

I think it's really quite a difficult question.

Are my staff and I exasperated with nVidia? Yes, at times we are. The best comment from a developer yet was just last week, "Hasn't nVidia ever heard of a recursion test?"

That said; what in the market do we have to compare nVidia to? ATI? Please. ATI's brought a pointy stick to a howitzer fight and quite frankly I have no more interest in dealing with ATI than I do shoving their stick into our right eye.

Would I like nVidia to do better? Hell yes. But, am I prepared to kick them to the curb because they piss us off? Not yet - the only alternative is so horrific I can't even bear to think about it.

But if you want to ask how we feel about nVidia as a vendor for our linux graphics drivers...??? Compared to other platforms (namely windows and mac OSX)...? I would have to say they are doing a pathetic job of it.

If our customers felt this way about us I'd be pretty upset and more than just a little bit concerned.

Their drivers are far better on Mac (I know Apple writes them for OSX, not nVidia) and on Windows it's like night and day. But we do understand the difficulty they face here and are to some degree sympathetic.

I just wish they could understand how much money we have lose as a result of issues relating to nVidia's drivers when we do simple things like kernel updates.

That said, what's our option?

It's kinda like voting day here in the US... Hmmm... which one sucks the least. This guy sucks, but the alternative is as bad as voting for Satan so I pick the former sucky candidate because I hate him just a little less...

If I was in charge would this be acceptable? Probably not. But I'm not in charge so there you have it.

My advice would be to make your job of supporting Linux easier until you can say with certainty that you are doing and spectacular job of supporting your Linux customer base on a smaller number of distributions.

Pick a handful of distros, namely Fedora, Suse and maybe Ubuntu and explicitly support them as large players like Autodesk has done. If you have to pick just two, chuck Ubuntu. RHEL and FC can be considered one distro for the sake of this argument.

At least then the commercial users like movie studios and large geo sciences folks are happy and able to get their work done. The job of maintaining working drivers for every flavor of the week linux distro can just go away and nVidia's job gets infinitely easier. Then ask these customers for whom your drivers are mission critical what applications they are using and then set up a suite of recursion tests using these applications. Validate new drivers using these recursion tests and be certain that you don't hose people before releasing new drivers. It would go a long way toward improving people's confidence.

The thing is, success here will be difficult to quantify. Most of the customers like this have real, adult IT staff that are pretty much mute on the topic till they have a problem that shuts them down. Then they get real loud. They are hardly the kind that goes whining online every time they can't get doom to run properly after updating their drivers or buying a new card. They generally muddle through the installation and configuration issues most suffer and know how to read a log file, can debug things as well as most folks without direct access to the driver source.

Problem is, loads of people will moan and complain about this. Get over it. Most of these folks don't have airliner parts to get designed or movie release dates to contend with. Let's support people whio need the drivers for business rather than worry about every Linux hobbyist on the planet and I think we'll all end up in a much happier place.

I'd rather have stable, solid performing drivers on two or three distros than unstable, flakey performance from driver version to driver version on every distro under the sun.

My $0.02.

Bash away...

gmp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need Help Installing NVIDIA Tesla M2070Q in Linux RHEL5 Ferianto85 NVIDIA Linux 0 05-18-12 08:35 PM
Rumor regarding lack of 680 availability ViN86 Rumor Mill 6 05-09-12 04:48 PM
rh7.3 and nvidia vcrispo NVIDIA Linux 11 07-31-02 08:57 PM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2014, nV News.